Battlefield Adventures - Andy Collins speaks!

[Maggan]

Preach it

And just because his name is on the cover doesn't mean Andy is the one who wrote the 'broken' or 'dumb' parts. Andy gets way more crap than he deserves and its getting to the point where it just plain annoys me.

Preach it. Now he's getting a hammering before anyone outside WotC even has seen the book at a distance. He's getting reamed for rules that people are making up and saying "I bet he does this. Boy he sucks!". Or something similar.

It seems Andy can't win, whatever he does.

FWIW, I have at least three systems for waging war using d20 (Cry Havoc, Fields of Blood, Miniatures Handbook), and wasn't looking to getting another. But a book on the adventures you have on a battlefield is something that interests me.

Aptly named book, Battlefield Adventures, in my mind.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[JoeGKushner]

FWIW, I have at least three systems for waging war using d20 (Cry Havoc, Fields of Blood, Miniatures Handbook), and wasn't looking to getting another. But a book on the adventures you have on a battlefield is something that interests me.

Aptly named book, Battlefield Adventures, in my mind.

Cheers!

Maggan

I tend to agree here. See, I've also got Strongholds and Dynasties, AEG's War, and AEG's Empires, so I really don't see the need for another combat system.

 

[3catcircus]

I don't necessarily know if this book will be a worthwhile addition or not. From the press release, it almost seems like it is attempting to allow you to model the "micro-battles" between PCs and special NPCs during the "maco-battle" of army-vs-army.

If this is the case, then it doesn't seem to be necessary. The 3 main mass combat books (Cry Havoc, Fields of Blood, D&D Miniatures Handbook) all model mass combat (to varying degrees of success.) I really think that the "hand-to-hand between the PCs and NPCs while battle rages around them" is more of a subjective thing than something that can be easily quantified in a set of stats and combat actions. It is really something that the DM has to work to make believable - descriptive text, such as:

"PC1: I will attack the Thayan officer (the one leading that group of sappers) with my shortbow.
DM: As you take aim at him, a skirmish line of Purple Dragons is forced into your path as they are fighting the 3rd platoon of the General's mercenary army, ruining your line of sight - PC2 can get an AoO on one of the baddies.
PC2: I will use my Dual Strike Feat to aid the Purple Dragon closest to me.
PC1: I switch my aim to the Gnoll Sgt. off to his right.
DM: Ok, take your shot.
DM: Next Round, a volley of arrows is fired upon the unit of Thayans led by that Gnoll Sgt., off to your right, and they also catch a few of your own troops, including PCs 3 and 5.
PC4: I shout out an order to cease fire, we are taking friendly fire."

I don't think *any* book can aid in simulating something like this, it really has to be up to the DM to provide enough description to allow the PCs to envision this.

Me - I use the Farland Mass Combat System since it is a quick-n-dirty computer program that allows me to not worry about the bigger battle around the PCs.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Green Ronin's battle system from Testament is a good one for PC involvment, but not so hot with the manuvers and such.

I'll probably end up buying this book.

 

[Belen]

I do not have a problem with Andy per se, but I have noticed issues with the books produced on his watch. And I always took issue with so many of his house rules appearing in the D&D revision.

Personally, I am looking forward to Battlefield Adventures, even if Andy's post implies that we're just going to get another book of PrCs, feats and spells. I am not holding out much hope that Wizards can turn that trend around.

It is fine and dandy to say the book is for GMs, but his post really did not grant that impression.

 

[BryonD]

This looks like a pretty good book.

And as someone who doesn't go out of his way to find a stupid way to abuse the rules, I find the books with Andy's name on them range from very much acceptable to very good.
I've used Draconomicon several times and it rocks.

 

[DungeonMaster]

And as someone who doesn't go out of his way to find a stupid way to abuse the rules *snip*
I've used Draconomicon several times and it rocks.

Maximized+ empowered + clinging + yadda yadda breath weapons isn't "going out of your way to abuse the rules". I'm sure the dragon *could* take toughness 4 times instead of these feats but if you were the dragon in a draconomicon compliant world which feats would you choose?
Taking a chain of feats from a single source and applying it isn't "rules abuse". At some point one needs to realise the rules are "poorly designed" when the breath weapon can kill your entire party if they make their saves.
D&D game design isn't rocket science. At some level you expect basic mathematical understanding of what it is is being put into print from the "lead designers", at least I do.

You basically can't use the draconomicon in good faith that you're not going to obliterate the PCs with a "supposed" appropriate CR encounter.

Anyhow, I'm not surprised Andy has his few fans. As long as he stays the hell away from 4th edition there's still hope.

 

[TerraDave]

Incomplete nonetheless

If Battlefield Adventures succeeds in allowing the PCs to have interesting encounters whilst maintaining the feel of a big battle going on around them, then it'll be well worth my interest.

Cheers!

Merric, you certainly deserve your title of optimist....and while I see what they are trying to do, and that it is somewhat original, from A.C.s comments it is missing some major stuff:

The DM may still want a resolution system for the battle, and the players may still want to take the role of commanders, and have a broader impact on the battle (and war). It is not really clear how you do that without something very much like a mass combat system.

Miniatures handbook does not have a mass combat system in the sense that it allows you to resolve battles with hundreds or thousands of participants (anything worth being called a battle). Yes there is some third party stuff out there, but how will it mesh with this? You want some way to link the actions of the charecters to the wider battle, it is not clear that kit-bashing this with some other product will work that well (of course we won't know until it comes out).

It is a strange ommission. Testament has a system of mass combat resolution that allows for significant individual actions--and feats to make war oriented charecters--and it takes up something like 20 pages. They are releasing a whole hardback, they can't include something??

 

[Voadam]

My group was just talking about PCs in war and the various D&D options and rules and how they were mostly not suiting our needs when we DM. Hope this does its job well, it looks interesting.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Personally, I am looking forward to Battlefield Adventures, even if Andy's post implies that we're just going to get another book of PrCs, feats and spells. I am not holding out much hope that Wizards can turn that trend around.

Well, I can see what you mean, but have a look at the latest preview for Lost Empires of Faerun. The PrCs, Feats, and Spells are ALL in Chapter 1, with at least 10 Chapters total. Seems that they're turning around the trend with at least one book, which means they can do it again.