Battlefield Archer PrC

[Empirate]

Hi guys,
I'd be interested in your opinion on a prestige class I threw together. Tired of the "casters are better" thing, and of the fact that Tome of Battle does nothing (OK, very little) for ranged attackers, I thought about an archer who could hold his/her own on a battlefield - not through damage, but through directly affecting the action economy. Furthermore, I wanted to make something that can actually use feinting to great effect.
Check it out:



Battlefield Archer

Battlefield Archers are elite squad leaders or commandos who can virtually ensure their team’s success in any given combat situation. Highly trained to be superbly aware of their surroundings, they can react in the blink of an eye to foil the opposition’s best-laid plans and most powerful moves. Moreover, their precise missiles can batter an opponent’s defenses down until he must admit defeat. With a well-placed arrow or shuriken, this menace can usually defeat most opponents one-on-one, and can make his mates that much more effective. Despite the name, Battlefield Archers can just as easily rely on other forms of attacking from afar, be it throwing axes, javelins, or bolts from a repeating crossbow.
Most Battlefield Archers are Rogues, Ninjas, or Assassins. Many also have some levels in the Fighter class due to the large number of feats necessary to qualify.
Despite Dexterity obviously being very important to ranged attackers, high Intelligence is probably even more crucial to Battlefield Archers, since all their most important class feature rely on it.


Prerequisites:
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Spot 8 ranks, Spellcraft 3 ranks
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Special: Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike +2d6

HD: d8

Class skills:
Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble

Battlefield Archers receive 4 + (Int bonus) skill points/level


[TABLE="width: 617"] [TR] [TD="colspan: 5"]Battlefield Archer class features[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BAB[/TD] [TD]Fort[/TD] [TD]Ref[/TD] [TD]Will[/TD] [TD]Special[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]+0[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]+0[/TD] [TD]Ranged Feint (30 ft.), Superior Feint (1 round), Arresting Shot (charge)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]+0[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]+0[/TD] [TD]Hampering Shot (rolls), Bonus damage +1d6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]Arresting Shot (all movement)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]Hampering Shot (abilities)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]+1[/TD] [TD]Superior Feint (multiple targets), Bonus damage +2d6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]Ranged Feint (60 ft.), Arresting Shot (spells)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+7[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]Hampering Shot (slow)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]Arresting Shot (supernatural), Bonus damage +3d6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+9[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]Hampering Shot (daze)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]+10[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]+7[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]Master of the Battlefield[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

Class Features:

Ranged Feint (Ex):
At 1^st level, you can feint against a target within 30 ft. At 5^th level, you can feint against targets within 60 ft.

Superior Feint (Ex):
At 1^st level, the target of your successful feint loses their Dex bonus to AC against all of your attacks for 1 round.
From 5^th level onwards, you can simultaneously feint against a number of targets equal to your Int mod (roll one Bluff check, compare to each target’s Sense Motive check individually).

Arresting Shot (Ex) or (Su):
From 1^st level onwards, as an immediate action, you can make an arresting shot against a target undertaking certain actions. Make an attack with a ranged weapon you are wielding. You take a -2 penalty to this attack and to all ranged attacks you make for 1 round. If you hit, you deal normal damage, and the target must make a save (DC = 10 + Int mod + class level) or immediately stop whatever activity provoked your arresting shot and lose the rest of that action (remaining actions in the turn can still be taken). The target must be within range of your Ranged Feint ability for you to make an Arresting Shot, and must be denied its Dex bonus to AC against this attack.
At 1^st level, you can use this ability against any opponent that takes a charge or partial charge action. You can make this arresting shot at any point during the target’s movement. Fort negates.
At 3^rd level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that moves more than 5’ during their turn. You can make this arresting shot at any point during the target’s movement. Fort negates.
At 6^th level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that tries to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability. On top of the normal Concentration check forced by taking damage during spellcasting, the target must make a Will save or lose the action as well as the ability to cast spells or use spell-like abilities for 1 round. This is a supernatural ability.
At 8^th level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that tries to use a supernatural ability. If the target fails the Will save, they not only lose their action, but also cannot use that supernatural ability for 1d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability.

Hampering Shot (Ex) or (Su):
From 2^nd level onwards, as a standard action, you can make a hampering shot against a target. Make an attack with a ranged weapon you are wielding. You take a -2 penalty to this attack and to all ranged attacks you make for 1 round. If you hit, you deal normal damage, and the target takes one of various penalties (chosen by you from the options available to you). In some cases, a successful save (DC = 10 + Int mod + class level) mitigates these penalties. The target must be within range of your Ranged Feint ability for you to make an Arresting Shot, and must be denied its Dex bonus to AC against this attack.
At 2^nd level, you may impose a -2 penalty to the target’s attack rolls and saving throws for 1 round (no save).
At 4^th level, you may choose either Dexterity or Strength. The target takes a penalty to the chosen ability score sufficient to reduce it to half its normal value (round down). This penalty lasts for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.
At 7^th level, you may choose for the target to be slowed for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.
At 9^th level, you may choose for the target to be dazed for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.

Bonus damage:
At 2^nd, 5^th and 8^th level, increase the bonus damage you inflict with your Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike ability. If you have more than one of these abilities, and they apply at the same time, only add this bonus damage once.

Master of the Battlefield (Su):
At 10^th level, your actions and reactions on the battlefield become supernaturally quick.
When you successfully make an Arresting Shot, you can forgo any sneak attack or sudden strike damage you would have dealt to the target, and your next swift action is not considered used up. You can still only make one Arresting Shot against any given target once per round, and you can only forgo your extra damage in this manner if the target is vulnerable to extra damage from sneak attack or sudden strike.
When you successfully make a Hampering Shot, you can spend a swift action to regain the standard action you just spent.

 

[Dozen]

Okay, can we seriously post Homebrew here again? I seem to have missed something.

On topic! There are a few supposed "necessities" I always disliked in Archer builds. Such as the fact you need Point-Blank Shot for everything From Far Shot through Ranged Pin and Woodland Archer to washing your hair, for no apparent reason. Obvious issues disregarded, casters tend to be superior also because they are not bound by feat chains to achieve the desired style and/or purpose. You shouldn't encourage that by circumventing even houserules that say PBS is not a necessity for all the ranged weapon-related feats. And as the enlightenment of all archers is your goal, the Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike requirement is just mean - Fighters, Rangers, Scouts, Hexblades, Chaotic Incarnates and so on should by all means have access to a ranged PrC without dips into a backstabber class. Think you can drop Ol' PBS from the prereqs and switch the latter to a more sluggish advancement of an applicable main class feature, like the Scout's Skirmish, Fighter feats, Essentia and Hexblade's Curse? Or scratch the whole idea and give the class a Sneak Attack progression instead?

Lastly, I'd add Search to the skill list, with Int being a main stat and small enemies being things you might need to skewer, it's only reasonable. Plus, the poor Rogue could wipe his arse with his best utility Class Feature after taking levels in Battlefield Archer, if he has one left after the DC 30+ Magic Traps tore into him.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

As mentioned above, this should probably go into the homebrew thread. Someone will move it sometime soon.

Hi guys,
I'd be interested in your opinion on a prestige class I threw together. Tired of the "casters are better" thing, and of the fact that Tome of Battle does nothing (OK, very little) for ranged attackers, I thought about an archer who could hold his/her own on a battlefield - not through damage, but through directly affecting the action economy. Furthermore, I wanted to make something that can actually use feinting to great effect.
Check it out:



Battlefield Archer

Battlefield Archers are elite squad leaders or commandos who can virtually ensure their team’s success in any given combat situation. Highly trained to be superbly aware of their surroundings, they can react in the blink of an eye to foil the opposition’s best-laid plans and most powerful moves. Moreover, their precise missiles can batter an opponent’s defenses down until he must admit defeat. With a well-placed arrow or shuriken, this menace can usually defeat most opponents one-on-one, and can make his mates that much more effective. Despite the name, Battlefield Archers can just as easily rely on other forms of attacking from afar, be it throwing axes, javelins, or bolts from a repeating crossbow.

Despite the name... I suggest a different name then. Really. The name gives the first impression. I'd say "targeteer" but maybe that's already taken, or only applies to bows.

Most Battlefield Archers are Rogues, Ninjas, or Assassins. Many also have some levels in the Fighter class due to the large number of feats necessary to qualify.

The name doesn't apply if they're rogues. A battlefield archer is generally visible, if distant.

Despite Dexterity obviously being very important to ranged attackers, high Intelligence is probably even more crucial to Battlefield Archers, since all their most important class feature rely on it.


Prerequisites:
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Spot 8 ranks, Spellcraft 3 ranks
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Special: Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike +2d6

HD: d8

Class skills:
Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble

Battlefield Archers receive 4 + (Int bonus) skill points/level

Class Features:

Ranged Feint (Ex):
At 1^st level, you can feint against a target within 30 ft. At 5^th level, you can feint against targets within 60 ft.

Seems decent, but doesn't suit the name. (An archer on the battlefield is not going to "feint" someone, especially if they're only within 30 feet.)

Superior Feint (Ex):
At 1^st level, the target of your successful feint loses their Dex bonus to AC against all of your attacks for 1 round.
From 5^th level onwards, you can simultaneously feint against a number of targets equal to your Int mod (roll one Bluff check, compare to each target’s Sense Motive check individually).

I like the 1st-level ability, although that should probably be lowered a level, just to avoid frontloading. I don't see the point of the 5th-level ability. Archers generally kill one target and then shift to another target.

Arresting Shot (Ex) or (Su):
From 1^st level onwards, as an immediate action, you can make an arresting shot against a target undertaking certain actions. Make an attack with a ranged weapon you are wielding. You take a -2 penalty to this attack and to all ranged attacks you make for 1 round. If you hit, you deal normal damage, and the target must make a save (DC = 10 + Int mod + class level) or immediately stop whatever activity provoked your arresting shot and lose the rest of that action (remaining actions in the turn can still be taken). The target must be within range of your Ranged Feint ability for you to make an Arresting Shot, and must be denied its Dex bonus to AC against this attack.
At 1^st level, you can use this ability against any opponent that takes a charge or partial charge action. You can make this arresting shot at any point during the target’s movement. Fort negates.
At 3^rd level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that moves more than 5’ during their turn. You can make this arresting shot at any point during the target’s movement. Fort negates.
At 6^th level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that tries to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability. On top of the normal Concentration check forced by taking damage during spellcasting, the target must make a Will save or lose the action as well as the ability to cast spells or use spell-like abilities for 1 round. This is a supernatural ability.
At 8^th level, you can make an arresting shot against any opponent that tries to use a supernatural ability. If the target fails the Will save, they not only lose their action, but also cannot use that supernatural ability for 1d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability.

Sweet!

The rules are written in a strange way. I guess I'm too used to 4e, but I expect to see the rules for triggers first, before the rules for the immediate action, but never mind that.

IMO these are not supernatural abilities. These are extraordinary. Especially given your note up top about being tired of all the magic-using classes. Supernatural is still magic. Shooting someone in the throat to stop them from casting a spell is extraordinary instead.

Hampering Shot (Ex) or (Su):
From 2^nd level onwards, as a standard action, you can make a hampering shot against a target. Make an attack with a ranged weapon you are wielding. You take a -2 penalty to this attack and to all ranged attacks you make for 1 round. If you hit, you deal normal damage, and the target takes one of various penalties (chosen by you from the options available to you). In some cases, a successful save (DC = 10 + Int mod + class level) mitigates these penalties. The target must be within range of your Ranged Feint ability for you to make an Arresting Shot, and must be denied its Dex bonus to AC against this attack.
At 2^nd level, you may impose a -2 penalty to the target’s attack rolls and saving throws for 1 round (no save).
At 4^th level, you may choose either Dexterity or Strength. The target takes a penalty to the chosen ability score sufficient to reduce it to half its normal value (round down). This penalty lasts for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.

No to that latter one. Messing around with ability scores will just slow down gameplay. It can also get ridiculous, if the target of the short was a tyrannosaurus, or some similar monster.

At 7^th level, you may choose for the target to be slowed for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.

Slow isn't a defined effect in 3rd Edition. This needs definition.

At 9^th level, you may choose for the target to be dazed for 1d4 rounds; a successful Fort save reduces that to 1 round.

Daze is an incredibly powerful effect in 3rd Edition. It's basically a stun. I think that's too much.

Bonus damage:
At 2^nd, 5^th and 8^th level, increase the bonus damage you inflict with your Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike ability. If you have more than one of these abilities, and they apply at the same time, only add this bonus damage once.

Master of the Battlefield (Su):
At 10^th level, your actions and reactions on the battlefield become supernaturally quick.
When you successfully make an Arresting Shot, you can forgo any sneak attack or sudden strike damage you would have dealt to the target, and your next swift action is not considered used up. You can still only make one Arresting Shot against any given target once per round, and you can only forgo your extra damage in this manner if the target is vulnerable to extra damage from sneak attack or sudden strike.
When you successfully make a Hampering Shot, you can spend a swift action to regain the standard action you just spent.

That's ... confusingly written.

IMO, the class needs the following changes:
1) Change the name. This works far better if you're a shuriken-using rogue than an archer.
2) Change all supernatural abilities to extraordinary abilities.
3) Remove the Combat Expertise requirement. I don't get why it's there.
4) It has too many abilities. Choice is good, especially for noncasters, but this will cause paralysis.
5) Build an example NPC. Because this is complex.

 

[Dozen]

IMO these are not supernatural abilities. These are extraordinary. Shooting someone in the throat to stop them from casting a spell is extraordinary instead.

Only the last one is Supernatural from that batch. The rest are Extraordinary, as you suggested. As for the last, it should be magical as far as lore is concerned. You can't just learn to interrupt a Supernatural ability through a mundane technique. They don't involve concentration from the creature using them no matter the hazard, and can be cast with such an ease, they don't even allow for an AoO. Disrupting them effectively requires specialized magic.

Especially given your note up top about being tired of all the magic-using classes. Supernatural is still magic.

He didn't call out on magic in general, just casters. The Binder class, Initiators, Meldshapers and Invokers don't deserve to be called too strong for comfort, and they are all capable of magic.

I don't see the point of the 5th-level ability. Archers generally kill one target and then shift to another target.

Which is exactly why it is useful. You get more than one attack per round, you know.

No to that latter one. Messing around with ability scores will just slow down gameplay. It can also get ridiculous, if the target of the short was a tyrannosaurus, or some similar monster.

What are casters doing, inviting them over for tea? A Wizard gets Ray of Clumsiness and Ray of Enfeeblement at 1st level, for crying out loud. Ability penalties are par of the course.

Daze is an incredibly powerful effect in 3rd Edition. It's basically a stun. I think that's too much.

I'm with you on this one. A round of Daze with no save allows you to keep someone incapable of taking actions indefinitely. You'd automatically beat an enemy one-on-one the moment you won Initiative.

3) Remove the Combat Expertise requirement. I don't get why it's there.

It's fairly accurate. Archers were trained for defense in general. From your post, I assume you support an authentic experience, no? Rules-wise, it's probably because as an archer, you are as capable of protecting yourself as the Samurai is versatile. That is, you aren't.

 

[Empirate]

Thanks for the constructive replies, guys! I will adress your comments in turn below, but first of all let me give my basic idea of the class:

It's based on the concept of ultra-precise shots at close range, which take the place of a regular melee option. You need to keep a few steps away from opponents in order to make sure you can concentrate on your shots, but you also need to be fairly close in order to pull off your trick, because at longer ranges, your precision will lack. This basically follows the norm for ranged precision damage (sneak attack, sudden strike, skirmish), and expands on the implicit idea behind the "must stay within 30 ft." clause, in that it lets you cause additional effects with your increased close range precision. This is also the reason I included precision damage in the prereqs. I also included the two basic ranged combat feats, both of which make a lot of sense here thematically (so no, I don't consider PBS an aggravating feat tax, at least not where prereqs for this class are concerned).

As mentioned above, this should probably go into the homebrew thread. Someone will move it sometime soon.

Sure enough, I totally forgot that, and apologize. I rarely post homebrew, and I think it's the first time I did on thses boards. If a mod would be so kind?

Despite the name... I suggest a different name then. Really. The name gives the first impression. I'd say "targeteer" but maybe that's already taken, or only applies to bows.
The name doesn't apply if they're rogues. A battlefield archer is generally visible, if distant.
{here came my prereq bit}
Seems decent, but doesn't suit the name. (An archer on the battlefield is not going to "feint" someone, especially if they're only within 30 feet.)

Targeteer sounds great to me! I was, honestly, stumped for a good name...

I like the 1st-level ability, although that should probably be lowered a level, just to avoid frontloading. I don't see the point of the 5th-level ability. Archers generally kill one target and then shift to another target.

Feinting several targets is extremely useful to the class's abilities, which can only be used on targets that lose their Dex bonus vs. your attacks. My idea was that during the first four levels, you could basically pick one target to keep "controlled" at all times with Hampering and Arresting Shots to the face: viz., the one target you feinted against on your turn. From 5th level onwards, you can keep tabs on multiple opponents, and can shut down whatever they're doing with an Arresting Shot if need be.

Sweet!
The rules are written in a strange way. I guess I'm too used to 4e, but I expect to see the rules for triggers first, before the rules for the immediate action, but never mind that.
IMO these are not supernatural abilities. These are extraordinary. Especially given your note up top about being tired of all the magic-using classes. Supernatural is still magic. Shooting someone in the throat to stop them from casting a spell is extraordinary instead.

The (Su) tag is needed IMO; disrupting all spellcasting for a round, or disrupting a supernatural ability at all (for the reasons given by [MENTION=6698275]Dozen[/MENTION]), cries supernatural to me. The first two Arresting Shot abilities are (Ex)

No to that latter one. Messing around with ability scores will just slow down gameplay. It can also get ridiculous, if the target of the short was a tyrannosaurus, or some similar monster.

Messing with ability scores is fun! And I don't see the ridiculousness, even against very strong monsters. As for slowing gameplay, other abilities will do that to a much greater degree. Str and Dex are the ability scores whose impact is most felt, and which change most often anyway.

Slow isn't a defined effect in 3rd Edition. This needs definition.

It's more or less defined in the Slow spell. I agree that using an actual defined condition would be better, so I'll change that to Staggered.

Daze is an incredibly powerful effect in 3rd Edition. It's basically a stun. I think that's too much.

It's better than Stun, in that many more monsters can be affected by it...
I see where you're coming from. But this is at 14th level at the minimum. Full casters have been slinging 7th level spells (Forcecage, Reverse Gravity, Power Word Blind, Blasphemy...) for a whole level by now. Also note that you still have to hit, that it only works at short range, and that your target must be denied its Dex bonus vs. the attack. I don't see it as that unbalanced.

That's ... confusingly written.

Is it? Hmm. Sorry, I found it hard to word just what I wanted to express.

Explanation for the Arresting Shot bit:
First of all, remember that Sneak attack/sudden strike will usually apply whenever you make an Arresting or Hampering Shot, since the target of those abilities must be denied their Dex bonus. With the class's capstone, you can make an Arresting Shot so quickly that it lacks some of its usual precision (you don't deal your bonus damage). In that case, you take so little time that your immediate action doesn't eat your next turn's swift action. Meaning, you can make one more Arresting Shot in the same round (albeit against a different target). If and when you make another Arresting Shot in the same round, you can again decide to deal extra precision damage, or you can make another "very quick" Arresting Shot instead. And so on. If you always forgo your precision damage, you can basically make one Arresting Shot against each target that takes a triggering action 1/round.

Explanation for the Hampering Shot bit:
Basically, you can choose to make a Hampering Shot as a swift action instead of a standard action. And you can decide to do so after you have taken the shot (and seen the results). This allows you to use your standard action for something else, should you feel the need to do so after seeing the result of your Hampering Shot. You could even immediately make another Hampering Shot against the same target, for example, if the target made their save, or you want to apply another debuff.

IMO, the class needs the following changes:
1) Change the name. This works far better if you're a shuriken-using rogue than an archer.
2) Change all supernatural abilities to extraordinary abilities.
3) Remove the Combat Expertise requirement. I don't get why it's there.
4) It has too many abilities. Choice is good, especially for noncasters, but this will cause paralysis.
5) Build an example NPC. Because this is complex.

1) OK
2) see above
3) Combat Expertise is there because it's a prereq for Improved Feint. Also, it makes sense to me.
4) It has just three abilities, basically:
It can do stuff with feinting that's useful, and that is needed much of the time to make the other two abilities work.
It has one active ability in Hampering Shot. This is your bread and butter when it's your turn. Depending on the situation and the opponents, you have a few options to select from when using Hampering Shot, but that's it.
It has one reactive ability in Arresting Shot. You can use this once per round when it's not your turn, to stop some bad stuff from happening. Over the levels, the kinds of bad stuff you can stop expand.
The class also progresses sneak attack/sudden strike, because sometimes, you just need to do damage. This isn't an option you didn't have before, though.
I don't see that as overly complicated!
5) Will probably give one in the near future, thanks for the idea.

Only the last one is Supernatural from that batch. The rest are Extraordinary, as you suggested. As for the last, it should be magical as far as lore is concerned. You can't just learn to interrupt a Supernatural ability through a mundane technique. They don't involve concentration from the creature using them no matter the hazard, and can be cast with such an ease, they don't even allow for a AoO. Disrupting them effectively requires specialized magic.

He didn't call out on magic in general, just casters. The Binder class, Initiators, Meldshapers and Invokers don't deserve to be called too strong for comfort, and they are all capable of magic.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with stuff being magical. I don't even have a problem with primary casters (love them, actually). I just wanted a ranged attacker, of all things, to be able to go toe to toe with one, and to be as useful to a party of adventurers in combat situations.

Which is exactly why it is useful. You get more than one attack per round, you know.

Also, denying Dex to AC is the prerequisite for pretty much every other major ability the class gets. So denying Dex to multiple opponents at once gives you more options for the rest of the round.

What are casters doing, inviting them over for tea? A Wizard get's Ray of Clumsiness and Ray of Enfeeblement at 1th level, for crying out loud. Ability penalties are par of the course.

Exactly.

I'm with you on this one. A round of Daze with no save allows you to keep someone incapable of taking actions indefinitely. You'd automatically beat an enemy one-on-one the moment you won Initiative.

As any given 14th level Wizard worth their salt would. I don't see much of a problem with this class having a similiar option (that still needs to hit, still needs a Dex-denied opponent etc.). The game is basically rocket tag at this point, anyway.

It's fairly accurate. Archers were trained for defense in general. From your post, I assume you support an authentic experience, no? Rules-wise, it's probably because as an archer, you are as capable of protecting yourself as the Samurai is versatile. That is, you aren't.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense. But I merely included it for the sake of completeness, as it's a prereq for Improved Feint.

Keep it coming, this is interesting!

 

[Dozen]

Thank you for the praise, made my day

You make a compelling argument regarding Daze, but I'm still concerned. Maybe we should run a short simulation of a fight between a Wizard and a BF for safety's sake?

EDIT: Actually, no, not necessary. I just thought of a spell combination that beats the ability and all others the class has. I spend too much time with optimizers...

What about including Skirmish as an optional Requirement then?

 

[Empirate]

As you said earlier, that fight would probably boil down to initiative much of the time (which the wizard would be in a good position to win, given Nerveskitter). It would also depend a lot on circumstances: encounter distance (very important for the "Targeteer/Battlefield Archer"), terrain, pre-buffed-ness of the opponents, expended daily resources, surprise...


I'd say the fight would go one of these ways (assuming a Wizard 11, 14, and 15 vs., say, a Rogue 4/Fighter 1/"Targeteer/Battlefield Archer" 6, 9, and 10, respectively):

1) Wizard wins initiative, and there's no surprise round. OR: the encounter starts at such a distance that it's impossible for the T/BA to close the distance to within 60'. If the Wizard is at all aware what he's facing, it's one spell and game over (a lot of spells will either completely neuter the T/BA's ability to fight, make the Wizard unhittable, or effectively end the encounter, like Teleport). This is regardless of what level the T/BA has, regardless of what he does, regardless of buffs, regardless of encounter distance etc. It is also often regardless of any d20 rolls. Wizards are good at this kind of thing.
Best case scenario for the Wizard: depending on spell selection, this is an almost automatic not-lose, and will often be an automatic win.



2) T/BA wins initiative, and the Wizard opponent is not at all buffed except for day-long buffs. Encounter distance is short enough so the T/BA can get into 60' range in one move action.

2a) If the T/BA is 6th level, he can just use his move action to feint, attack as a standard action, then rely on Arresting Shot to stop the Wizard from casting. The Wizard might move out of range of that ability on his own action, though (and using Arresting Shot to stop his movement uses up your immediate action!). He might also make his save and his concentration check, although that would be lucky indeed. Still, at this level, the T/BA cannot effectively shut down the Wizard at all.

2b) If the T/BA is 9th level, he has a good chance of hitting the Wizard with a Hampering Shot, dazing him for at least 1 round, since day-long buffs usually don't provide significant miss chance or DR or enough of an AC bonus to make the Wizard unhittable. T/BA also does a chunk of damage. On his next action, he can use his move action to feint with a good chance of success (probably close to an automatic success at this level, since most Wizards don't get Sense Motive, and have poor BAB). He can use his standard action to deliver another Hampering Shot. Repeat until Wizard is dead, or until the T/BA makes a poor roll - either an attack or Bluff. This is still a risk, but the T/BA has a very good chance now, especially with a different method of denying Dex to AC (such as a custom item of Greater Blink).

2c) If the T/BA is 10th level, this scenario gets much better, since he gets his 10th level capstone ability. Failing a roll doesn't break the chain, since the T/BA can spend a swift action to try again with another Hampering Shot. The T/BA can now be almost (though not entirely) assured of victory.



3) Short-term buffs, environmental conditions etc. can change only one of those scenarios, and that is scenario 2): the Wizard might be next to unhittable to begin with, rendering the T/BA useless. Miss chance stacking, very high AC, unfavorable terrain, a Wind Wall effect etc. can stop the T/BA from performing his schtick. But the reverse isn't necessarily true: even extremely powerful buffs on the T/BA won't massively affect the way this scenario plays out. At best, they can give the T/BA better movement options and reign in the Wizards moving away in 2a), and improve the T/BA's rolls in all subscenarios.


4) If both combatants are on their last leg, having used up most resources prior to encountering each other, the momentum swings in the T/BA's favor: as long as he has ammo, he can do his thing all day. The Wizard, on the other hand, might have expended his "I win"-buttons. Even low-level spells (e.g. Obscuring Mist) can still save his bacon for a bit, but the T/BA has a good chance of winning this one. However, this chance is less dependent on the class's abilities and more due to the fact that Wizard can't to jack when they're out of spells.


Overall, I'd give a slight edge to the Wizard, since he is not so dependent on the almighty d20. But circumstances will have a big impact on how this one plays out. Which is as is normal at the levels we're talking about!



BTW, I think a more interesting comparison would be how well the T/BA would fare in a variety of combat encounters, as compared to a Wizard.

 

[Dozen]

BTW, I think a more interesting comparison would be how well the T/BA would fare in a variety of combat encounters, as compared to a Wizard.

Welp, I see I got you thinking anyway. I should edit faster. Very well, let us do a Tier placement then. Quoting the (in)famous JaronK:

Situation 1(combat capabilities): A Black Dragon has been plaguing an area, and he lives in a trap filled cave. Deal with him.

Situation 2(roleplay, information and intrigue): You have been tasked by a nearby country with making contact with the leader of the underground slave resistance of an evil tyranical city state, and get him to trust you.

Situation 3(command and battlefield control): A huge army of Orcs is approaching the city, and should be here in a week or so. Help the city prepare for war.

How would the T/BA fare in these situations?

Black Dragon Lair: This is where T/BA truly shines. He routinely avoids traps and kills minions who were unlucky enough to make note of him along the way down. Once in position, he very likely wins initiative, and has the ability to debuff the dragon with crippling penalties, interrupt casting, and generally being a hump on the back. Assuming a safe distance of 60 feet, and a surprise round - which is likely given the base classes - he might be half done before the dragon had a chance to attack. Should the surroundings allow it, the T/BA may fire from a portion of the lair where the dragon is unable to fly and target him at the same time, rendering the fight rather one-sided. +1/+2 Tier bonus.

Revolution: Very much depends on the base class of the build. T/BA itself has no use for Charisma, and has no sure access to spells. A show of power on his part against a dangerous foe may win the resistance's favor, or they might become scared of him. 50/50, really. No Tier Bonus.

Siege: An elite archer among the ranks in itself boosts the morale. The T/BA may handipick among the enemies along the wall for those eligible for Hampering Shot, pretty much guarranteeing an edge over other ranged characters on the field. He may also stroll around the backskirts and eliminate the chain of command or disrupt supply lines with relative ease. +1/+2 Tier bonus.

Conclusion: Base class Tier: 4th. Average bonus: 2.

In other words, the average T/BA is strong second tier, on par with a Sorcerer.

 

[Empirate]

Actually, T/BA has good incentive not to dump Cha (and will often include base classes with good social skills): feinting relies on the Bluff skill, and taken together with Ranged Feint and Superior Feint, maxing Bluff makes for a good way of denying Dex to AC to your opponents.

Really, the more I think about this class, the more the hidden caveats come to light: you want excellent Dex and Int, and at least average Cha. You also need good Con, what with average HD and needing to be near the front lines. Some way of getting Close Combat Shot, the Arrowmind spell or similar are highly recommended. Winning initiative pays big dividends. Build-wise, you also need to keep up all the rest of what an archer likes to have, while investing in stuff that makes SA better (Craven). Equipment-wise, you want a bow that's unaffected by weather conditions, damage reduction etc. (i.e., Force enchantment), and some way of dealing precision damage to Undead, Constructs etc., while still meeting your stat buff and mobility needs.

So all in all, the T/BA has some very nice perks, but is a bit strenuous to make really good. Out of combat, you have little utility except where skill use is concerned.

Regarding tiers, I certainly see the T/BA as an "up two" PrC, similar to what the Runescarred Berserker does for Barbarians, the Rainbow Servant for Warmages, or the Soulbow for the Soulknife. But up there with a Sorcerer? I don't think so. More like a ToB class for archery/thrown weapons.

 

[Dozen]

Actually, T/BA has good incentive not to dump Cha (and will often include base classes with good social skills): feinting relies on the Bluff skill, and taken together with Ranged Feint and Superior Feint, maxing Bluff makes for a good way of denying Dex to AC to your opponents.

Really, the more I think about this class, the more the hidden caveats come to light: you want excellent Dex and Int, and at least average Cha. You also need good Con, what with average HD and needing to be near the front lines. Some way of getting Close Combat Shot, the Arrowmind spell or similar are highly recommended. Winning initiative pays big dividends. Build-wise, you also need to keep up all the rest of what an archer likes to have, while investing in stuff that makes SA better (Craven). Equipment-wise, you want a bow that's unaffected by weather conditions, damage reduction etc. (i.e., Force enchantment), and some way of dealing precision damage to Undead, Constructs etc., while still meeting your stat buff and mobility needs.

So all in all, the T/BA has some very nice perks, but is a bit strenuous to make really good. Out of combat, you have little utility except where skill use is concerned.

Regarding tiers, I certainly see the T/BA as an "up two" PrC, similar to what the Runescarred Berserker does for Barbarians, the Rainbow Servant for Warmages, or the Soulbow for the Soulknife. But up there with a Sorcerer? I don't think so. More like a ToB class for archery/thrown weapons.

The tier system measures the combination power and versatility, not the challenge the optimization may involve. That's why the Binder is 2nd Tier and the Incarnate is 4th, despite the fact an unoptimized character of either class get their asses kicked by a Warrior. 2nd Tier is just fair and fine for this baby.