Battlesystem: the once and again

[Kannik]

Now, admittedly, this is a question that probably pops up often... but with a module fast approaching that will require some mass combat, and having gotten the vote from my group that the majority wish to try this route, suddenly I find myself facing this very question. None of the d20 mass combat/unit combat systems have really... appealed to me on all levels. At least, none of the ones I've seen. They all have one or two things that nig me enough to make me go 'feh' in frustration with them.

I do remember playing the 2nd Ed Battlesystem a few times years ago when it came out, and I remember that at the time I thought it was a pretty workable system. Perhaps scarily, I am nearly considering trying to do something with the system, though I know it is fraught with its own problems (billion dice needed, new d20 problems, heros being a tad powerful).

So, my dillema seems to be that all roads seem to lead to a place I'm not entirely happy with. For those out there who have had experience running combats with a couple o' thousand participants per side, along with 6 PCs, what insights can you share, both on the system used and on making the battle and the PCs exciting and balanced.

Thanks a tonne,

Kannik

 

[dcollins]

Not much experience in actual play here, but I was also impressed but the quality of the Battlesystem rules set (particularly the second book version). I wrote up some guidelines for converting those rules to the current d20 System environment, here: www.superdan.net/battlsys.html

 

[James McMurray]

I've also got a full conversion for Battlesystem that my group used as part of the Bloodstone series. I don't have it posted anywhere, but if you'd like to give it a look I can get it up on the net for download somewhere.

I agree: none of the d20 ones can really handle battles with 1000 troops on either side as well as Battle System did. My group picked both Cry Havoc and the Miniatures handbook and still opted to use the old rules.

 

[Silveras]

I agree: none of the d20 ones can really handle battles with 1000 troops on either side as well as Battle System did. My group picked both Cry Havoc and the Miniatures handbook and still opted to use the old rules.

Hmm... I don't know that I would say none. Empire, from AEG, and Fields of Blood, from Eden Studios, both offer more scalable mass combt rules.

Fields of Blood uses units of 100 soldiers (less for big monster "Special" units) and organized formations of up to 16 units (that's 1600 there).

Empire allows you to adjust the scale of the unit to suit the campaign scale; battles waged between large realms and using thousands of soldiers are scaled a little differently than those involving two small baronies and dozens of soldiers. Empire also allows you to create units of varying sizes (size, in this case, is # of creatures in the unit) that all have proportionate statistics. With this, an army of a dozen Medium-sized units (like, from separate alled lands) could take on a single Colossal-sized unit (hordes of Orcs, etc.).

 

[James McMurray]

Perhaps I should instead say "none of the ones we shelled out the cash for." After having been burnt twice, we went with what we had.

 

[Kannik]

Not much experience in actual play here, but I was also impressed but the quality of the Battlesystem rules set (particularly the second book version). I wrote up some guidelines for converting those rules to the current d20 System environment, here:

Mmm, looks good, just changing the relevant 3e changes to THAC0 et al to get the values, plus some d20-age usage. Looks good indeed } Any significant chagnes to the magic that you've found has an impact?

I've also got a full conversion for Battlesystem that my group used as part of the Bloodstone series. I don't have it posted anywhere, but if you'd like to give it a look I can get it up on the net for download somewhere.

Now that would rock, especially since (you've found me out! } I'll be running the very same Bloodstone campaign. -grin- If you could put up your conversion(s) (and any notes you have on the Bloodstone campaign at all, actually, I'd love to devour all of it) I'd be super-yoink-happy.

I'll have to check out Empire too, just to see (haven't seen that one, nor FoB yet).

Thanks a tonne!

Kannik
(super-yoink-happy? Gah... this is what happens when you have to come in 2h early to work to rush like a madman to finish off things for submittal to the city )

 

[James McMurray]

I'll upload the Battlesystem conversions tonight and post a link for you. MY oither conversions have been pretty campaign specific, and tailored to challenge an Epic level (22nd when they started, now 25th-26th). I only have the NPCs stored on my computer, but I can post them too if you'd like. If your party is lower or higher level, it might not be much help.

 

[James McMurray]

Here ya go:

Battle System conversion (3.0)

The conversion is to 3.0, so a few things might be slightly different if you're using 3.5.

 

[Kannik]

Here ya go:

Thanks! } Looks very thorough, very nice, can't wait to get a chance to go through it.

-hehe- The PCs will start at 15th, but I still wouldn't mind to see what you'd come up with for epic level challenges. I'm hoping to pad/expand the adventure in a few spots, so any inspiration is good. }

Thanks again,

Kannik

 

[James McMurray]

Send me an email at jtmcmurray@REMOVETHISPARTcharter.net

I don't want to post too much here because my player frequent these boards and I don't want to spoil anything for them. They've just reached the Temple of Orcus and the fact that every room has its own forbiddance (tied to invisibility purge) is giving them a tough time. Especially since the opposing forces are immune to it.

Check the link in my sig as well. It points to a story hour that starts with the intro adventure in the ELH and is almost up to date.