Battletech??? An Entire Product line as a single product???
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Clearing the air.....
I wrote this back in February as an attempt to clear the air - but then decided to not post it because I thought the furor had died down and I was getting busy with other things....
However, since there seems to be some issues regarding my posting here, I guess I will post it after all. At the end is the emails I sent to Dextra, and her single reply to the first email....
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The whole reason for this post is "clear the air" a bit. There has been a number of misunderstandings and problems caused by various reasons. Thus, I want to make the following statement, and then I will fade back into the woodwork again. I will not be responding to any replies to this post, and am not even sure how long it will be before I will even return.
1) ICE is no longer competing in the ENnies.
2) ICE will not compete in the ENnies or any other awards if that awards does not have a codified/well-documented set of rules that cannot be completely rewritten and changed from one year to the next (Note: this has always been one of the problems with the Origin Awards, and even their massive efforts to fix the OAs left that problematical issue in place. The ENnies also have this problematical issue since the newly elected judges are the ones who set the rules for the awards in a given year). ICE does not have to (nor does it expect to) agree with all of the rules to participate, but we won't participate unless they are codified/well-documented and not subject to sweeping changes from year to year. This is NOT an ultimatum. It is simply a statement of ICE's intent. If the ENnies change the way they do things, then ICE will revisit the decision to not participate, if they don't, that is their decision and they are entitled to it just as ICE is entitled to its opinion to not compete.
3) A codified/documented set of rules CAN ALLOW for updates to those rules and changes to them through pre-defined processes as conditions change regarding the products being judged. They need not be a straight-jecket as some have claimed. I know this from experience as I once wrote my own proposal for the Origins Awards and it included processes for making changes.
4) I got upset at something that happened last year, however, that event was totally within the rules.
5) Those rules were not explicitly explained, and Dextra did point out in one post that the same problem occured in a prior year (only the one who did not like it was the publisher of the product that was inserted into). However, those rules were valid. This caused confusion, but again, the actions of the judges last year were NOT outside the rules.
5) I have the utmost respect and admiration for the folks who run the ENnies and those who have been judges, up to and including last year's judges. They are individuals of honor and integrity. The sole exception here is Morrus. While I still believe that he is a man of integrity, he has made a number of personal attacks, including some line (I have been told, I was banned when I was told about it, and I am not going to bother trying to find it) where he mentions something about my wife. To me, that (making ANY sort of comment about my family) loses him the "honorable" portion of the description, but I still do not doubt his integrity.
6) At no point was it the intention of ANY of my posts to impugn the integrity of the folks running the ENnies or of past judges. I wish to tender my apologies to anybody who thought that I was attacking the individuals involved, it was not my intention and any misunderstandings in that regard were unintentional.
7) I most certainly CAN disagree with somebody and still respect them and their values. I can even strongly disagree with a person and still respect them and their values.
8) In any discussions of the ENnies where I mentioned problems, I was referring specifically to POTENTIAL problems. The potential for these things to become actual problems is there, and I sincerely wish to see them corrected before they bite the ENnies in the butt. The attitude of some "why fix it if it isn't a problem yet" neglects to consider that if such things DO become problems, they will have besmirched the integrity ENnies and hurt its reputation, and that is something that cannot be easily recovered.
9) The only reason these things have not been serious problems is because of the integrity and honor of the people involved to date.
10) Nobody can guarantee that judges of the future (and no, I am NOT referring to this year's judges) will have the same honor and integrity of the current and past judges. Hence, one of the reasons for #2 above.
11) A lot of what I have been trying to say has gotten mixed up and things have been attributed to me that were not said or meant in how something was actually said. Things have also been very clouded because of personal attacks against me and my motivations and integrity because I actually stood up and said "I see something that can go horribly wrong here, can you please get it fixed".
12) While I, personally, have problems with the rules that allowed the event mentioned in #4 above, and while I, personally would like to see those rules change. The fact is, at this moment, the company I work for is not any sort of stakeholder, due to the wider issue of codified/document rules that cannot be totally replaced from year to year. This means that my comments in regards to this issue should not be viewed as one company trying to influence or bully the awards, because the is NOT the case.
13) Since the company I work for has no stake in the ENnies this year, or in the near future until/unless the ENnies decide to have a codified set of rules, I felt free to express my views and concerns regarding the ENnies. Some indiivduals took that to mean, incorrectly, that I was trying to unduly influence the awards in my favor, even though my suggestions were meant, and I stated explicitly a number of times, to make sure that the awards remain fair to all.
14) I do, personally, care passionately about the ENnies, and I want to see them grow and I want to see them prosper and get better overall. I made several comments/suggestions (i.e. moving all ENnie activities to the ENnies website because having them on the world's largest d20 fan site IMPLIES a bias towards d20, since the SITE ITSELF has an innate bias for d20 (it is the world's largest d20 fan site).
15) ICE has even approached the ENnies about the possibility of ICE offering sponsorship (as detailed in the quoted sections below). We were making an honest attempt to "put our money where our mouth was" and as you can see below, we were rebuffed. And yes, the following emails can be confirmed as I copied several individuals on them, including one of the guys who was running to be an ENnies judge.
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In a thread over on rpg net -- http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=310047&page=2 -- post #37 -- Denise sated the following:
Notice point #1. I will be referring back to it several times...
Then over on the ICE website, one of the potential judges said something to the effect of"why don't you offer to host the ENnies website", to which one of my regular forum memebrs sent me a PM saying that that was a good idea. I then broached the idea with one of my bosses, and the following email was the result. I sent the email on February 9th.
Notice what I am asking for. Just information about what sort of server would be needed.
Here is the response I received on February 10th.
I never offered money, but that is what the response was about. Though keep in mind item #1 from that first quote from Denise.
I tried one last time and sent the following email back to Denise on February 10th.
To date, I still have not received a response to this last email.
Now turn your mind back to item #1 in first quote. ICE wanted to make an offer that would solve that issue, and has appreantly been turned down before the offer could even be made. ICE won't compete right now, but it is quite willing to sponsor the ENnies, and yet we were turned down.
Heck, ICE is pretty much willing to publicly sign agreements that would prevent it from entering in the ENnies while it suuported them, not to mention a public agreement that also prevents us from entering for several years AFTER any support is ended (this is to ensure that folks do not think that ICE just wants to coerce the awards and then turn around and enter immediately afterwards.
This was an honest attempt to offer sponsorship. I am sorry, but I feel that point #1 cannot, any longer, be used as any sort of excuse when the folks who are running the ENnies refuse to even discuss any sort of corporate sponsorship with those who are willing to offer it (and fully willing to exempt themselves from the awards as well).
I wrote this back in February as an attempt to clear the air - but then decided to not post it because I thought the furor had died down and I was getting busy with other things....
However, since there seems to be some issues regarding my posting here, I guess I will post it after all. At the end is the emails I sent to Dextra, and her single reply to the first email....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole reason for this post is "clear the air" a bit. There has been a number of misunderstandings and problems caused by various reasons. Thus, I want to make the following statement, and then I will fade back into the woodwork again. I will not be responding to any replies to this post, and am not even sure how long it will be before I will even return.
1) ICE is no longer competing in the ENnies.
2) ICE will not compete in the ENnies or any other awards if that awards does not have a codified/well-documented set of rules that cannot be completely rewritten and changed from one year to the next (Note: this has always been one of the problems with the Origin Awards, and even their massive efforts to fix the OAs left that problematical issue in place. The ENnies also have this problematical issue since the newly elected judges are the ones who set the rules for the awards in a given year). ICE does not have to (nor does it expect to) agree with all of the rules to participate, but we won't participate unless they are codified/well-documented and not subject to sweeping changes from year to year. This is NOT an ultimatum. It is simply a statement of ICE's intent. If the ENnies change the way they do things, then ICE will revisit the decision to not participate, if they don't, that is their decision and they are entitled to it just as ICE is entitled to its opinion to not compete.
3) A codified/documented set of rules CAN ALLOW for updates to those rules and changes to them through pre-defined processes as conditions change regarding the products being judged. They need not be a straight-jecket as some have claimed. I know this from experience as I once wrote my own proposal for the Origins Awards and it included processes for making changes.
4) I got upset at something that happened last year, however, that event was totally within the rules.
5) Those rules were not explicitly explained, and Dextra did point out in one post that the same problem occured in a prior year (only the one who did not like it was the publisher of the product that was inserted into). However, those rules were valid. This caused confusion, but again, the actions of the judges last year were NOT outside the rules.
5) I have the utmost respect and admiration for the folks who run the ENnies and those who have been judges, up to and including last year's judges. They are individuals of honor and integrity. The sole exception here is Morrus. While I still believe that he is a man of integrity, he has made a number of personal attacks, including some line (I have been told, I was banned when I was told about it, and I am not going to bother trying to find it) where he mentions something about my wife. To me, that (making ANY sort of comment about my family) loses him the "honorable" portion of the description, but I still do not doubt his integrity.
6) At no point was it the intention of ANY of my posts to impugn the integrity of the folks running the ENnies or of past judges. I wish to tender my apologies to anybody who thought that I was attacking the individuals involved, it was not my intention and any misunderstandings in that regard were unintentional.
7) I most certainly CAN disagree with somebody and still respect them and their values. I can even strongly disagree with a person and still respect them and their values.
8) In any discussions of the ENnies where I mentioned problems, I was referring specifically to POTENTIAL problems. The potential for these things to become actual problems is there, and I sincerely wish to see them corrected before they bite the ENnies in the butt. The attitude of some "why fix it if it isn't a problem yet" neglects to consider that if such things DO become problems, they will have besmirched the integrity ENnies and hurt its reputation, and that is something that cannot be easily recovered.
9) The only reason these things have not been serious problems is because of the integrity and honor of the people involved to date.
10) Nobody can guarantee that judges of the future (and no, I am NOT referring to this year's judges) will have the same honor and integrity of the current and past judges. Hence, one of the reasons for #2 above.
11) A lot of what I have been trying to say has gotten mixed up and things have been attributed to me that were not said or meant in how something was actually said. Things have also been very clouded because of personal attacks against me and my motivations and integrity because I actually stood up and said "I see something that can go horribly wrong here, can you please get it fixed".
12) While I, personally, have problems with the rules that allowed the event mentioned in #4 above, and while I, personally would like to see those rules change. The fact is, at this moment, the company I work for is not any sort of stakeholder, due to the wider issue of codified/document rules that cannot be totally replaced from year to year. This means that my comments in regards to this issue should not be viewed as one company trying to influence or bully the awards, because the is NOT the case.
13) Since the company I work for has no stake in the ENnies this year, or in the near future until/unless the ENnies decide to have a codified set of rules, I felt free to express my views and concerns regarding the ENnies. Some indiivduals took that to mean, incorrectly, that I was trying to unduly influence the awards in my favor, even though my suggestions were meant, and I stated explicitly a number of times, to make sure that the awards remain fair to all.
14) I do, personally, care passionately about the ENnies, and I want to see them grow and I want to see them prosper and get better overall. I made several comments/suggestions (i.e. moving all ENnie activities to the ENnies website because having them on the world's largest d20 fan site IMPLIES a bias towards d20, since the SITE ITSELF has an innate bias for d20 (it is the world's largest d20 fan site).
15) ICE has even approached the ENnies about the possibility of ICE offering sponsorship (as detailed in the quoted sections below). We were making an honest attempt to "put our money where our mouth was" and as you can see below, we were rebuffed. And yes, the following emails can be confirmed as I copied several individuals on them, including one of the guys who was running to be an ENnies judge.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a thread over on rpg net -- http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=310047&page=2 -- post #37 -- Denise sated the following:
Denise said:
Notice point #1. I will be referring back to it several times...
Then over on the ICE website, one of the potential judges said something to the effect of"why don't you offer to host the ENnies website", to which one of my regular forum memebrs sent me a PM saying that that was a good idea. I then broached the idea with one of my bosses, and the following email was the result. I sent the email on February 9th.
Rasyr said:
Notice what I am asking for. Just information about what sort of server would be needed.
Here is the response I received on February 10th.
Denise said:
I never offered money, but that is what the response was about. Though keep in mind item #1 from that first quote from Denise.
I tried one last time and sent the following email back to Denise on February 10th.
Rasyr said:
To date, I still have not received a response to this last email.
Now turn your mind back to item #1 in first quote. ICE wanted to make an offer that would solve that issue, and has appreantly been turned down before the offer could even be made. ICE won't compete right now, but it is quite willing to sponsor the ENnies, and yet we were turned down.
Heck, ICE is pretty much willing to publicly sign agreements that would prevent it from entering in the ENnies while it suuported them, not to mention a public agreement that also prevents us from entering for several years AFTER any support is ended (this is to ensure that folks do not think that ICE just wants to coerce the awards and then turn around and enter immediately afterwards.
This was an honest attempt to offer sponsorship. I am sorry, but I feel that point #1 cannot, any longer, be used as any sort of excuse when the folks who are running the ENnies refuse to even discuss any sort of corporate sponsorship with those who are willing to offer it (and fully willing to exempt themselves from the awards as well).
Teflon Billy
Explorer
Rasyr said:
No, that's not it.
Speaking for myself, you have been such a collossal ass in the past that you have burned up any credit you might have on this subject.
The endless inaccurate claims about the awards.
The endless rhetorical questions paired with shrill claims that you are "simply asking questions" (exclamation point!!!).
The endless bitching about the lack of respect/consideration your views get despite them being wholly based on faulty assumptions
I mean, I understand you think you have something valuable to add to the discussion, but when every single person involved doesn't want to listen to you any more--and it's your fault--you might want to just recuse yourself.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
Rasyr said:
My understanding is that the declining of the sponsorship offer was directly related to the board not wanting anything to do with you personally due to the above mentioned shrill whining, bitching and rhetorical dodges.
I don't think there is any rule concerning the ENnies being forced to accept any sponsorships regardless of their origin.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
Rasyr said:
I'll believe it when I see it.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
Rasyr said:
This is the kind of backhanded rhetorical sniping you are justly famous for.
No one said they wanted "only wanted non-serious, silly questions to be posted to the candidates for judges"...they said they didn't want discussion of ENnies policy, but rather the Judge's prior qualifications. You ignored that and sassed the mod.
Then, if memory serves, you started outlining how you were willing to suffer the bannings becasue you were "speaking the truth" or some such nonsense.
Your rhetorical questions did not bear the fruit you wanted, yet you continue to hold them up as "proof" of something.
Despite the fact that they are transparently nothing but rhetorical tricks.
it was as sad and pathetic then as it is now.
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