Be honest: Is this feat a little strong?

[Mistah J]

any divine inspired? when did druid and ranger turn to the arcane?

I understand what you meant, but the 2 I listed do not have KN religion, but still use divine spells

Divine Inspired does not equal Divine spellcaster.

I was looking to create a feat that could benefit any character concept that centred on faith or devotion - something a particularly pious fighter or rogue could take if they wanted.

That's not a "religious feel' so much as a PhD in theology

Interesting take on the skill, but I still feel 5 ranks is more of a requirement than a second stat, especially one that is right up the alley of a Cleric of Paladin.

And, if you will indulge me - I have a second feat I'd like to bounce off you all:

RIGHTEOUS FIST

You can combine your attacks against the forces of evil with devastating effect.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist,
Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), smite evil class ability, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: Even if a current target of your smite evil ability successfully saves against your stunning attack, it is still staggered for 1 round.

- Now, the way the feat is written currently, a character could keep a foe continuously staggered by using Stunning fist round after round. This of course would use up all their Stunning Fist attempts for the day. Do you think that cost and effect are equal? A 20th level Paladin with this feat could keep a foe staggered for 5 rounds maximum but it is obvious this feat would work best with a monk/paladin multiclass that would get more Stunning Fist attempts thanks to the monk's special rules.


If you think that spending multiple Stunning Fist attempts to keep a foe staggered for longer is too strong then I'm going to add a clause that says it only works once per any given smite evil attempt.


Honestly, I can't tell which is the best option.


Thanks for all your feedback and ideas by the way - I really appreciate the help it has given me.

 

[pawsplay]

Interesting take on the skill, but I still feel 5 ranks is more of a requirement than a second stat, especially one that is right up the alley of a Cleric of Paladin.

Some clerics or paladins may not specialize in that skill, yet might be really pious. Quick question: are you aware Paladins are Cha-based in Pathfinder?

And, if you will indulge me - I have a second feat I'd like to bounce off you all:

RIGHTEOUS FIST

You can combine your attacks against the forces of evil with devastating effect.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist,
Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), smite evil class ability, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: Even if a current target of your smite evil ability successfully saves against your stunning attack, it is still staggered for 1 round.

- Now, the way the feat is written currently, a character could keep a foe continuously staggered by using Stunning fist round after round. This of course would use up all their Stunning Fist attempts for the day. Do you think that cost and effect are equal? A 20th level Paladin with this feat could keep a foe staggered for 5 rounds maximum but it is obvious this feat would work best with a monk/paladin multiclass that would get more Stunning Fist attempts thanks to the monk's special rules.


If you think that spending multiple Stunning Fist attempts to keep a foe staggered for longer is too strong then I'm going to add a clause that says it only works once per any given smite evil attempt.

Honestly, I can't tell which is the best option.

Thanks for all your feedback and ideas by the way - I really appreciate the help it has given me.

The problem with this feat is that it has no cost. One option would be costing two uses of Stunning Fist. Another would be that it costs more actions. Perhaps to perform this tactic, you must perform a standard attack. That way, when fighting a single foe, you could only trade single blows, and would be more fair if you and an ally teamed up on a powerful foe.

 

[Mistah J]

Some clerics or paladins may not specialize in that skill, yet might be really pious.

That is a good point. You got me there

Quick question: are you aware Paladins are Cha-based in Pathfinder?

Fully. Do you think that means a Paladin won't be able to make the Wis 13 requirement and therefore it should be a Cha one?

The problem with this feat is that it has no cost. One option would be costing two uses of Stunning Fist. Another would be that it costs more actions. Perhaps to perform this tactic, you must perform a standard attack. That way, when fighting a single foe, you could only trade single blows, and would be more fair if you and an ally teamed up on a powerful foe.

You mean no cost besides the stunning fist attempts right? and the original smite evil to get it started? Still, a higher cost might be a good idea. I like your suggestion of making it a standard action rather than an attack more than spending 2 stunning fists. Maybe it's a full-round action?

 

[pawsplay]

Fully. Do you think that means a Paladin won't be able to make the Wis 13 requirement and therefore it should be a Cha one?

I think they will likely be able to make it, I'm just not sure why the feat would favor clerics over paladins. Requiring Wis 13+, Cha 13+ would make it balanced for both classes, would still require some sacrifice without going too far outside the archetype, and would leave it accessible for lowever level characters.

You mean no cost besides the stunning fist attempts right? and the original smite evil to get it started? Still, a higher cost might be a good idea.

If something bears no additional cost to do, you do it all the time. With Weapon Focus that's good; we want the character to gain the bonus every time they use the weapon. But with this ability, you would basically be saying: this is what Stunning Attack does now when I'm smiting. But considering that it's a real game-changer, using this ability should be a conscious choice. "My stunning fist is better," is boring, and the ability to keep a foe stagged makes the smite + Stunning Fist combo attractive enough that it might lure someone outside their class concept.

I like your suggestion of making it a standard action rather than an attack more than spending 2 stunning fists. Maybe it's a full-round action?

For something to require a full-action, I think it needs to be pretty potent. Otherwise, you would perform this attack once, your opponent could simply move away, and you would be unable to perform the attack again, limiting its versatility.

If the ability requires:
1. ... a standard attack, you could move and attack, and combine the action with options like Vital Strike.
2. ... a standard action, granting a single attack, you could move and attack, but Vital Strike would be right out.

 

[Dingo333]

Divine Inspired does not equal Divine spellcaster.

I was looking to create a feat that could benefit any character concept that centred on faith or devotion - something a particularly pious fighter or rogue could take if they wanted.

One moment while I get on my soap box, thank you
*Steps on soap box*

Druids are just as religious as clerics, and much more so then paladins and oracles. They belong to their own church. Their church tenants being along the themes of nature and balance.

To say they are not divinely inspired is to have little clue as to what the source of power for a druid is. Yes they do not have KN Religion but that does not make them not religious.

A druid does not worchip a deity, BUT only a cleric does. If copious amounts of worship is what is required for this feat, you are limiting it to only clerics as not even the paladin is all that religion. The paladin order is a martial order devoted to preserving and inforcing Law and Good. No gods. No religious services. They worship Lawful Good for all intensive purposes.

Last note before I get off my soap box. If you played 3.5, go look at complete divine, and look under Obad-Hai (the nature deity) Under his clergy, it lists druids. Not that a cleric of Obad-Hai couldn't be made, but that the druid was his clergy. I am aware that this is pathfinder, but the concept still stands and that is how I run/play druids in all systems. They are the clergy of a neutral, balancing, nature oriented Deity.

Once again, Thank you
*Steps off soap box*

 

[Mistah J]

One moment while I get on my soap box, thank you
*Steps on soap box*

Druids are just as religious as clerics, and much more so then paladins and oracles. They belong to their own church. Their church tenants being along the themes of nature and balance.

To say they are not divinely inspired is to have little clue as to what the source of power for a druid is. Yes they do not have KN Religion but that does not make them not religious.

A druid does not worchip a deity, BUT only a cleric does. If copious amounts of worship is what is required for this feat, you are limiting it to only clerics as not even the paladin is all that religion. The paladin order is a martial order devoted to preserving and inforcing Law and Good. No gods. No religious services. They worship Lawful Good for all intensive purposes.

Last note before I get off my soap box. If you played 3.5, go look at complete divine, and look under Obad-Hai (the nature deity) Under his clergy, it lists druids. Not that a cleric of Obad-Hai couldn't be made, but that the druid was his clergy. I am aware that this is pathfinder, but the concept still stands and that is how I run/play druids in all systems. They are the clergy of a neutral, balancing, nature oriented Deity.

Once again, Thank you
*Steps off soap box*

You are preaching to the choir my friend! I am in full agreement with you here - I think it is very important to make big distinctions between druids and clerics because otherwise, the former is just a specialized, alternative form of the latter. That also goes to Paladins too since, if they had to worship a god, would just be a martial-based cleric variant.

The point that I was trying to make was that I feel ranks in Knowledge (Religion) is something that is attainable by any character of a religious nature - druid, paladin, or even fighter or wizard. Thus, I feel it is a better choice than things like 'divine spellcaster' or 'channel energy ability' that limit the feat to certain classes like cleric or maybe oracle.

 

[pawsplay]

If you want to emphasize religious observance, Knowledge (religion) 1+ ranks would be comparable to Mounted Combat, and easily accessible to pious fighters, rogues, and druids.