Joseph Lieberman
First Post
Heya Folks!
TL;DR: Is there a way to make a non-small PC Beastmaster viable in a "Deadly/Dangerous" level play group?
So I love the underdog class in any game for some reason, and its no secret that for whatever reason Beastmaster is 5e's red headed step child. Nonsense I say, this class is awesome. There's no shortages of threads that argue the pros and cons of it, but there's one undeniable problem with the entire class: Your pet can get killed or KOed fairly easily.
When it comes to melee it's actually very easy to protect your buddy. Take a level of fighter at level 4 or 5 (depending) and take the ability that gives disadvantage to not attacking you when you have a shield. Keep your buddy close and presto, you'll have a high AC minion that simply isn't worth swinging at when they could be beating you to death (You may want to invest in extra defense!). There's plenty of other solutions too for melee, including Sentinel and/or using the Giant Snake and keeping it in a good position or using a flying creature with flyby (If your DM is letting you use Flying Snakes anyway)... basically no shortage of solutions for melee damage.
The problem is spells. Your buddy will get nuked by AoE, eventually, no matter how good you are at keeping it safe. One invisible wizard later and pow!
Now there's one obvious way to overcome this and I want to get this out of the way first:
Mounted Combat
This pretty much solves everything wrong with your Beastmaster, but the reality is I hate the idea of being pigeonholed into a race selection. Do I think riding a giant crab sideways into battle is awesome. Hell yes. Do I want to play a halfling or a gnome? If the answer is no, what am I to do?
So crap, I am careful and tactful. My buddy even has a decent save if you read the rules as they get your prof bonus to their saves (very ambiguous!), but even a save vs. a fireball or something of that magnitude is going to drop my poor friend like a rock, a second hit may simply kill him outright.
So here's the problem to overcome. I've been pondering if it is possible, in a dangerous campaign setting (obviously if you're after a flavor setting you just do what you think is fun), to make a non-small Beastmaster.
Honestly, I don't know. The only "solutions" I have come up with are as follows... and they're all pretty silly, take forever to come online, or just plain dangerous.
Option 1:
Take 7 levels of Nature Paladin!
Thematically this is awesome, but in reality? You're at minimum level 10 before this even does what you want. Odds are you'd go Paladin 7 first and then Ranger 13, which means early on you can expect to lose a lot of companions (Since at level 8 they'd have 4-12 HP or so). On the plus side you and your buddy are super protected vs. spells thanks to the warding aura. There's some funky stuff you can end up doing, such as Find Steed w/mounted combat + your companion and I think its thematically awesome to be the protector of animals or whatever you want to RP it as. It's a long way to go, but provides a lot of cool features. Still, this feels like a pretty sub-optimal route.
Of course, this brings up the awkward question of if a SMALL creature can ride YOU into combat... with you on your horse, and your rat or whatever on YOU... and on him some tiny creature... no no, that's just nonsense.
Option 2:
Take 6 Levels of Nature Cleric!
Well, we managed to shave 1 level off the goal, which is protecting them from bursts of AOE- which will nearly always be elemental damage. It will only work for 1 hit per round (and you have to pick if its saving you OR your buddy), but its an option. Once again its also a great thematic fit. Again though, you're talking 9 levels to come online minimum and, unless you start at Cleric 9, really you're looking at 11 levels in reality, making this sub par to the Paladin route. (5 levels of Ranger to get two attacks and then 6 Cleric).
Both cases we're taking half the game todo what we can get with Mounted Combat at level 4 AND giving up 24-28 HP for our friend, which nearly defeats the purpose of it all.
Option 3 - Thinking Outside the Box
3 Levels of Sorc/Wiz
Ok now we've entered the stranger realm of this nonsense... which is we RETURN to mounted combat. 4 Levels of Ranger (to get Mounted Combat, maybe 5 for Extra) and 3 levels of spell casting. Why? Enlarge. As a concentration spell its a massive price to pay (and what the hell happens if you lose concentration riding something you enlarged!?), though it comes with a large variety of funky bonuses and the other spells you'll get can certainly be handy, I can't see it be worth doing. Funny to see a LARGE giant crab, but probably not worth the cost of admission.
So that's it. This is where I ran out of ideas. I can't see any way to make the survival of my pet possible unless my DM is letting me use Flying Snakes (which I imagine many DMs will simply tell you that isnt a creature you've ever seen before, let alone encountered after level 3). Flying snakes 'flyby' and tiny size mean it is pretty likely to zip in, do damage, and take full cover... for instance if your character is carrying a box
Anyone have any suggestions? A spell I overlooked? Some way to transfer damage, add resistance, or give a large stack of temp HP?
Bonus! The other problem most people point out with pets is they can't get a magical attack, which means many enemies may be immune / resistant to them. I think this is pretty minor, even at high levels. Unless ALL you are fighting is things that require magic weapons, if my beast and I can lock down some mooks while the big resistant baddie takes on everyone else that sounds ok. If someone has a solution to this other than a magic item, I'd be interested to hear it. Again, I think this is a minor drawback. Against that enemy are you weaker than other classes? Sure, but your companion is still handy for sniffing out danger, reporting on enemy movements, and just being a fun guy to have around the campfire.
TL;DR: Is there a way to make a non-small PC Beastmaster viable in a "Deadly/Dangerous" level play group?
So I love the underdog class in any game for some reason, and its no secret that for whatever reason Beastmaster is 5e's red headed step child. Nonsense I say, this class is awesome. There's no shortages of threads that argue the pros and cons of it, but there's one undeniable problem with the entire class: Your pet can get killed or KOed fairly easily.
When it comes to melee it's actually very easy to protect your buddy. Take a level of fighter at level 4 or 5 (depending) and take the ability that gives disadvantage to not attacking you when you have a shield. Keep your buddy close and presto, you'll have a high AC minion that simply isn't worth swinging at when they could be beating you to death (You may want to invest in extra defense!). There's plenty of other solutions too for melee, including Sentinel and/or using the Giant Snake and keeping it in a good position or using a flying creature with flyby (If your DM is letting you use Flying Snakes anyway)... basically no shortage of solutions for melee damage.
The problem is spells. Your buddy will get nuked by AoE, eventually, no matter how good you are at keeping it safe. One invisible wizard later and pow!
Now there's one obvious way to overcome this and I want to get this out of the way first:
Mounted Combat
This pretty much solves everything wrong with your Beastmaster, but the reality is I hate the idea of being pigeonholed into a race selection. Do I think riding a giant crab sideways into battle is awesome. Hell yes. Do I want to play a halfling or a gnome? If the answer is no, what am I to do?
So crap, I am careful and tactful. My buddy even has a decent save if you read the rules as they get your prof bonus to their saves (very ambiguous!), but even a save vs. a fireball or something of that magnitude is going to drop my poor friend like a rock, a second hit may simply kill him outright.
So here's the problem to overcome. I've been pondering if it is possible, in a dangerous campaign setting (obviously if you're after a flavor setting you just do what you think is fun), to make a non-small Beastmaster.
Honestly, I don't know. The only "solutions" I have come up with are as follows... and they're all pretty silly, take forever to come online, or just plain dangerous.
Option 1:
Take 7 levels of Nature Paladin!
Thematically this is awesome, but in reality? You're at minimum level 10 before this even does what you want. Odds are you'd go Paladin 7 first and then Ranger 13, which means early on you can expect to lose a lot of companions (Since at level 8 they'd have 4-12 HP or so). On the plus side you and your buddy are super protected vs. spells thanks to the warding aura. There's some funky stuff you can end up doing, such as Find Steed w/mounted combat + your companion and I think its thematically awesome to be the protector of animals or whatever you want to RP it as. It's a long way to go, but provides a lot of cool features. Still, this feels like a pretty sub-optimal route.
Of course, this brings up the awkward question of if a SMALL creature can ride YOU into combat... with you on your horse, and your rat or whatever on YOU... and on him some tiny creature... no no, that's just nonsense.
Option 2:
Take 6 Levels of Nature Cleric!
Well, we managed to shave 1 level off the goal, which is protecting them from bursts of AOE- which will nearly always be elemental damage. It will only work for 1 hit per round (and you have to pick if its saving you OR your buddy), but its an option. Once again its also a great thematic fit. Again though, you're talking 9 levels to come online minimum and, unless you start at Cleric 9, really you're looking at 11 levels in reality, making this sub par to the Paladin route. (5 levels of Ranger to get two attacks and then 6 Cleric).
Both cases we're taking half the game todo what we can get with Mounted Combat at level 4 AND giving up 24-28 HP for our friend, which nearly defeats the purpose of it all.
Option 3 - Thinking Outside the Box
3 Levels of Sorc/Wiz
Ok now we've entered the stranger realm of this nonsense... which is we RETURN to mounted combat. 4 Levels of Ranger (to get Mounted Combat, maybe 5 for Extra) and 3 levels of spell casting. Why? Enlarge. As a concentration spell its a massive price to pay (and what the hell happens if you lose concentration riding something you enlarged!?), though it comes with a large variety of funky bonuses and the other spells you'll get can certainly be handy, I can't see it be worth doing. Funny to see a LARGE giant crab, but probably not worth the cost of admission.
So that's it. This is where I ran out of ideas. I can't see any way to make the survival of my pet possible unless my DM is letting me use Flying Snakes (which I imagine many DMs will simply tell you that isnt a creature you've ever seen before, let alone encountered after level 3). Flying snakes 'flyby' and tiny size mean it is pretty likely to zip in, do damage, and take full cover... for instance if your character is carrying a box
Anyone have any suggestions? A spell I overlooked? Some way to transfer damage, add resistance, or give a large stack of temp HP?
Bonus! The other problem most people point out with pets is they can't get a magical attack, which means many enemies may be immune / resistant to them. I think this is pretty minor, even at high levels. Unless ALL you are fighting is things that require magic weapons, if my beast and I can lock down some mooks while the big resistant baddie takes on everyone else that sounds ok. If someone has a solution to this other than a magic item, I'd be interested to hear it. Again, I think this is a minor drawback. Against that enemy are you weaker than other classes? Sure, but your companion is still handy for sniffing out danger, reporting on enemy movements, and just being a fun guy to have around the campfire.
I agree sacrificing 7 levels of HP (28 HP) is a huge burden to overcome.
