Beef with all D20 Publishers

[JoeGKushner]

I hope this is just a joke.

You realize that there are rules in the DMG for this? All you need are the stats! Trolls have Str +12, Dex +4, Con +12, Int -4, Wis -2, and Cha -4.

For me, it's not a joke. The DMG does have the rules so the other companies should be applying those rules in terms of providing racial stats and modifiers as well as any important information for playing the race such as special abilities gained in different levels, etc... (then again, that was the old Drow from 2nd edition so perhaps not the most useful example.) How about height, weight, age variants? Hey, here's an idea. For playable races, put them in a seperate seciton like they sometimes do with Templates. If the DMG provides the means, then the publishers should use them to reduce the time it takes for GMs/Players to do the simple math required to come up with racial bonuses.

 

[EOL]

This may be a little off topic, but has the concept of +ECL made it into the SRD or some other "safe harbor"?

 

[Grazzt]

Now see, my personal beef is monsters that are playable as races. I find it incredibly lazy for companies to put the ECL and favored class and not provided the stat bonuses and other important information.

Then you should like the "Tome of Horrors" (Necromancer Games) as I provided stat modifiers for the "playable" races (meaning various humanoids, not things like the flumph for example).

 

[JoeGKushner]

Then you should like the "Tome of Horrors" (Necromancer Games) as I provided stat modifiers for the "playable" races (meaning various humanoids, not things like the flumph for example).

Sorry, without playable stats for the flumph, this book is no good. Damn, I was looking forward to it until this had to come along and ruin it.

Just kidding folks. While I wouldn't mind seeing racial stats for nonhumanoids, this is a great start. Any giants in the book that get this treatment or when you say humanoids, do you mean medium and small sized humanoids?

 

[Monte At Home]

ECL Open?

"This may be a little off topic, but has the concept of +ECL made it into the SRD or some other "safe harbor"?"

Nope.

 

[mattcolville]

Now see, my personal beef is monsters that are playable as races. I find it incredibly lazy for companies to put the ECL and favored class and not provided the stat bonuses and other important information.

Eden's Liber Bestarius has all the normal PC data you'd find in the PC race write-ups in the PHB including stat mods and special abilities.

Furthermore, any monster in the Liber that can use weapons and have class levels and stuff gets an Instant Badass. A unique version of the monster, in addition to all the normal stuff, with unique stats and items and memorized spells so you can just use the individual, right out of the book, no prep time required. It's even got advice for which spells to cast in combat in what order, etc...

 

[mattcolville]

This may be a little off topic, but has the concept of +ECL made it into the SRD or some other "safe harbor"?

No, but it's easy to develop your own thing that does the same thing. The Liber Bestarius, out in just a couple of weeks, has LE, I think, Level Equivalence.

 

[Frilf]

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Originally posted by CRGreathouse


I hope this is just a joke.

You realize that there are rules in the DMG for this? All you need are the stats! Trolls have Str +12, Dex +4, Con +12, Int -4, Wis -2, and Cha -4.
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Not 100% a joke. More like 85%.

Yes, I'm completely aware of the rules in the DMG for twiddling around with monsters and finding the stats - and I'm even getting good at it. I'm just saying that for the sake of quickness and ease of use, the "reverse engineering" method of figuring these things out adds an unneeded level of complexity - especially for GMs who want to fling something at a party in a spontaneous way - say a bugbear with six levels of druid or whatever.

Besides, creatures listed in the MM that can advance by Character Class should have information related to how to generate them as a PC race. It's just much easier for everyone involved. Of course, there probably wouldn't be as many sales of the DMG, that way

Just my own .02 on the topic.

As far as JoeGKushner was saying, I agree that *third party* publishers of d20 material should include this information if the monster in question is to be used as a PC race. *Especially* since the information on how to do it is readily available in the DMG, as you say. Is good?

Cheers!

 

[EOL]

Re: ECL Open?

"This may be a little off topic, but has the concept of +ECL made it into the SRD or some other "safe harbor"?"

Nope.

Thanks, Monte!

 

[HellHound]

Flumph?

Not Playable?

BAH I say! BAH!

I will prove you wrong yet, Scott!