Beef - WTC price gouging Canadians

[SWAT]

From Montreal here. This might or might not be relevant. Marvel recently reduced the Canadian price for all its comics so that it's more in line with the exchange rate. But Canadian prices for trades and hardcovers have not changed. Here's the answer given when asked why:

Q: CanadianJ - Several weeks ago the Canadian cover price of Marvel titles changed and is now somewhat more in line with the actual exchange rate. When will the same happen on trades and hardcovers? The current pricing of $19.99US/$32.00CAD on the “Marvel Premiere” hardcovers for example seems a touch ridiculous when the real exchange rate would be closer to $22.50.

David Gabriel: It’s not really ridiculous. Collected editions are kept in stock and in print for a long time. It would be ridiculous and cause more confusion to be changing the prices of these month to month. There would be $19.99 US books that could have up to five different prices on them at any given time. We feel it’s much more prudent for collected edition prices to remain consistent across the board for the foreseeable future.

So the Canadian prices on gaming books are possibly so high because, if WotC reduces them, and they're on the shelves long enough for the value of the Canadian dollar to tank, someone'll be in a lot of trouble.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

WTC is taking advantage. And yes there's nothing that can be done about it, except silly boycotts or download books off the net (in which case you're paying for paper and ink and time).

You seem to be assuming that because the suggested retail price is higher, that WotC is making more money. Nothing I've seen in this thread would seem to indicate that this is true. As the email from WotC mentions, the price printed on the book is a suggested retail price, and has nothing to do with how much WotC is getting per book for selling it to retailers.

My guess is that WotC makes the same per book printed, regardless of where it winds up being sold. Retailers can then choose to sell it for whatever they want (as evidenced by those who've gotten WotC product for significantly less than the suggested retail price). If a retailer chooses to use the suggested retail price, WotC doesn't get more money for the book, any more than they'd get less money if the retailer discounted it.

It's the retailer who will see that flunctuation when selling the book for more, or less.

In short, WotC doesn't sell its books by consignment.

 

[Nyaricus]

I be representing the Cold Flat Land!

Viva Winterpeg!

AMEN!!

 

[eris404]

Here's something to consider. I just got back from China two weeks ago. Many things are much cheaper in China than in the US, but we were surprised that a lot of name-brand things, like Sony electronics or Nike shoes, were about the same price or even a little more expensive than in the US (for example, one pair of athletic shoes was 1300 yuan or about US$160). We met some students while we were there and we asked them about it. They said that having name-brand clothing (or whatever) was a status symbol and that although they could knock-offs of a product for much less, they would gladly pay a premium for the real thing.These companies could easily charge less for their products in China and still make a profit, but they don't because they want to protect their brand's status.

Now granted, I get that WotC is not Nike or Sony, but D&D is still their product, and to many people, D&D is the RPG. Sure, WotC could sell their books for less, but they probably won't and it's probably not in their best interests to do so. More than likely, the only reason why the book costs are so much higher in Canada is simply because they've always been higher and it has little do with exchange rates, printing costs or shipping.

 

[craftyrat]

A few more thoughts - I used to work in a bookstore, and the price we paid was a percentage of the MSRP (usually +/- 5% from a base of 40% off, depending on how much we ordered). When the Canadian dollar fluctuates, someone in the supply chain is making (or losing) money. In this case, there is a good chance it is the manufacturer (Wizards), and a fairly small chance it is the distributor (Random House used to be the distributor in Canada, but that was a long time ago). Guardians was on exactly the other end of this argument. If retailers are marking stuff down from the MSRP, my guess would be that they are eating the cost in order to compete with Amazon.com etc.

However, books are sent to the printer well in advance of when they actually make it to the FLGS shelves. Add in the fact that currencies can fluctuate quite a bit, and manufacterers are a pretty conservative lot (they don't want to be in a position where they are selling at a loss), and there is a long delay in price changes. Eventually, the price difference should even out - excepting increased transportation costs, and other local expenses. If they don't, retailers will yell at their distributors, and distributors will yell at the manufacturer. All IMHO of course. (this is a pretty traditional sort of arrangement, a big question will be how does the Internet affect this - Wizards might decide that they should let the sellers (ie Amazon.com) handle the hassle of Customs, transportation and such, and encourage customers to buy from the US by not equalizing the prices).

craftyrat (also in Victoria, where I shop at a combination of Curious Comics and Amazon.com)

 

[Arnwyn]

The pricing difference between the US and Canada is mainly due to the exchange rate; and also a charge for shipping.

Here's a CBC story on the subject.

A professional accountant here. This needs to be re-quoted.

As noted, the (unreasonably) high MSRP is due mainly to exchange rate speculation (with only a little for shipping) at the time just before the book is printed. It does not come down quickly, as it is in the publisher's best interest to keep this higher for longer, as they get any excess profit from the (lower) exchange rate. As noted in the article, it is the publisher's decision, and any selling they do (to a distributor or otherwise) will have this additional mark-up reflected somehow. [13garth13 also notes this in his post. His paraphrase of the interview is essentially correct.]

The bonus is that in some cases, the mark-up isn't so high that the bookseller has no leeway - depending on the book format. Hardcovers and certain other books have greater pricing flexibility than paperbacks. Thankfully, this is reflected in many places in Canada in which certain WotC books can be sold for closer to the US price (in $Cdn).

Aside: In most provinces (if not all), PST is not charged on books. GST is always charged, but not included in the book's printed MSRP.

You seem to be assuming that because the suggested retail price is higher, that WotC is making more money. Nothing I've seen in this thread would seem to indicate that this is true. As the email from WotC mentions, the price printed on the book is a suggested retail price, and has nothing to do with how much WotC is getting per book for selling it to retailers.

Incorrect (unless WotC isn't the "publisher"). The publishers (is WotC the publisher?) do indeed make the extra money from using an inappropriate exchange rate.

It's funny. If I ship something to the US, it's often cheaper than shipping it to someone in Canada. It's just one example of Canada Post's stupidity.

Actually, Canada Post is known for its efficiency. In many cases, due to the geography and infrastructure involved, it really is sometimes cheaper to mail to the US from Canada. (Unlike how the USPS does things...)

You could always convert your money to dollars, buy an American copy, and have it shipped to Canada, paying appropriate taxes and duties. I guess there's an outside chance you could save money that way.

Absolutely not. As noted above, the USPS has some questionable pricing when mailing to Canada - and combine that with duties (yes, ordinary citizens still pay duties, NAFTA or otherwise) and sometimes a questionable conversion rate (credit card companies are hit and miss with their daily exchange rate, and also charge a "conversion fee"), and it becomes ridiculously expensive to order from the US and ship to Canada. (And this doesn't take into account the 'virtual exchange rate' when the Cdn$ was a bit lower - this allowed for slightly cheaper pricing in Canada than what a straight US + exchange conversion would result in; it accounted for the fact that the Canadian dollar was undervalued in the markets at the time. The 'virtual exchange rate' slowly diminishes as the Cdn$ approaches par with the US$.)

Ouch, that is really crappy Morrus. I feel your pain even in Canuck dollars; those are gonna be *really* expensive for most when they hit shelves...

Aside: Actually, Sony is pricing the PS3 appropriately for Canada - we're getting it at US + exchange. Period. (It's MS who is ripping off Canadians with the 360.)


Whew! All done with my blathering.

 

[Barak]

Bah. I'm a french-canadian living in the states that frequently goes back "home" to Montreal.

The price of everything is higher in Canada. Some things, like cigarettes and gas, is due to higher taxes for health/environmental/life-style reason. Fine.

Many other things have little obvious reason. Restaurant prices, books, heck, anything. The prices are much higher than the exchange rate alone can explain. But.. Salaries are also higher, much so. So in the end, it evens out, so there's no need to be all mad.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

....heck, someone has to represent the bloody middle of the country, eh?

I remember hearing on the CBC when one of the head honchos of Chapters-Indigo (it may in fact have been the owner) was being interviewed, she dismayed that publishers are basically gouging the Canadian customer and that the cost of books has always been tied to the exchange rate, and when it goes down versus the USD they sure as shooting raise the Canajun price, but they are glacially slow to adjust when our Loonie goes up against the American dollar.

So let's evaluate Chapters/Indigo then.

Player's Handbook II:


Amazon.com price: $23.07 + $6.48 shipping (cheapest option) = $29.55 = CAD $33.14
But: if you order an item from the U.S., Canada Customs makes you pay GST against its value plus a $5 "handling fee". So the true amazon.com price is $33.14 + $1.99 GST + $5.00 handling = $40.13

Amazon.ca price: $30.99 + $590 shipping (cheapest option) + $2.21 GST = CAD $39.10

Chapters/Indigo price: $30.98 + $5.90 shipping (only one option available) + $2.21 GST = CAD $39.09

Chapters/Indigo's "dismay" is worth one red cent!

So there you have it. It's actually more expensive to buy from the U.S. if you factor in miscellaneous hidden costs, and Chapters/Indigo is pretty much identical to Amazon.ca.

 

[Lanefan]

(also in Victoria, where I shop at a combination of Curious Comics and Amazon.com)

So that's 4 of us in Victoria so far. Not bad...

Skyhaven is a bit off my beaten track - I get out there maybe twice a year - but Curious downtown usually has whatever I need.

Someone mentioned Calgary's Sentry Box - I was out that way last summer and stopped in, and was somewhat surprised to find their prices generally higher than those here...more than enough to offset the lack of PST in Alberta. Disappointing...

Lanefan

 

[13garth13]

So let's evaluate Chapters/Indigo then.

Player's Handbook II:

*snip*

Oh, I don't think that Chapters/Indigo was saying they were being singled out versus other retailers (online or otherwise) simply that the MSRP was not being adjusted to reflect the current difference in exchange rates. Compare the base prices ($23.07 USD) versus the CAN prices ($30.98 say....) This is certainly not reflective of a 90 cent on the dollar (at the time that the PHBII was released) exchange rate.

Or have I misunderstood the jist of your post?

Sorry, got a head-cold (I get sick more in this bloody heat and humidity than I ever did in the crisp cold air of the prairies...) and I might not be reading your response correctly.

Cheers,
Colin