Been awhile "The Outbreak"

[Scrivener of Doom]

I would have the Heroic Tier be about carving out a safe place in the darkness. That may simply mean ensuring that the city you have as the centrepiece of your campaign is largely free of undead.

The Paragon Tier could then be about pushing back the darkness... but I would probably start with the first Paragon adventure being some sort of mass combat to defend the same city. (P1 King of the Trollhaunt Warrens may give you some ideas about running this sort of adventure - although I realise it's about trolls rather than undead.)

Coming back to the Paragon Tier being about pushing back the darkness. How do you do that? The simplest answer is a MacGuffin of some kind. In the Forgotten Realms (yes, I know, "Boo! Hiss!" - everyone hates FR), there is a nation, Elturgard, which has a second sun, created in 3.5E by a heretical (at the time) cleric of Amaunator. What if there is a similar ritual available in your world to summon a second sun in order to banish undead from a region? There's another similar idea in another 3.5E book (I thought it was Dungeon Master's Guide II but now I can't find it) where you created a great lance of sunlight on the top of a mountain. Imagine how that could cause havoc in the ranks of an undead army.

Anyway, perhaps a MacGuffin quest is cheesy... but often it can be effective. Think of what the components are - ritual scrolls/books, special ingredients (nothing as banal as residuum) etc... - and then let the PCs choose which to chase after first. It gets them travelling all over map, forces them to ask for information from NPCs (who may have require a task performed as the price of parting with the information required) and basically gives you something of a structure on which you can build your Paragon Tier.

And, [MENTION=92704]Grimmjow[/MENTION], what [MENTION=53678]Wednesday Boy[/MENTION] said about how to create your three types of undead is also what I would do.

 

[Grimmjow]

[MENTION=87576]Scrivener of Doom[/MENTION] the group will all be helping save people locked up to be used as "cattle" for the more powerful and intelligent undead, all the while moving toward the center of the darkness, the capital of the town. The players started their quest here so returning here will be quite a shock. The town will be taken over by the undead. Im going to use assault on nightwyrm fortress. This will take them into the kings castle and from there to the shadowfel, moving into the epic tier. I only want a few levels in Hrothgar (the city) maybe levels 18-20. When they hit 20 they will be heading to nighttime fortress. Running around in the sewers with in Hrothgar but i need stuff for them to hind behind while in the open. running around in the wilderness helping people fighting death cults the whole ca-bam.


And another thing. How can i introduce the players to their paragon paths. I want to have a story. I don't know what any of them are going t be so just general stuff would be helpful.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) And another thing. How can i introduce the players to their paragon paths. I want to have a story. I don't know what any of them are going t be so just general stuff would be helpful.

General stuff? Nothing springs to mind. Really, Paragon Paths and the stories that lead up to their choice are fairly specific. Maybe you could offer each PC 2-3 choices and tie those choices into the story?

As for the rest of your post, I should warn you that Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress is not a particularly good adventure. For some reason, Bruce Cordell went from being an outstanding adventure writer in 2E, to mediocre in 3E (except for Sunless Citadel) to writing 4E's worst adventures. The background and synopsis are good... but you might find you have to rewrite everything else.

 

[Grimmjow]

General stuff? Nothing springs to mind. Really, Paragon Paths and the stories that lead up to their choice are fairly specific. Maybe you could offer each PC 2-3 choices and tie those choices into the story?

As for the rest of your post, I should warn you that Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress is not a particularly good adventure. For some reason, Bruce Cordell went from being an outstanding adventure writer in 2E, to mediocre in 3E (except for Sunless Citadel) to writing 4E's worst adventures. The background and synopsis are good... but you might find you have to rewrite everything else.

Well what if my fighter goes in as a steel vanguard? She's extremely new to the game, and i ended up making this character for her so I'm sure she'll ask and when i made that character that would be the PP for her.

Lol. Im sure that i can get people on here with good ways to make it btter. But thanks for the heads up

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Well what if my fighter goes in as a steel vanguard? She's extremely new to the game, and i ended up making this character for her so I'm sure she'll ask and when i made that character that would be the PP for her.

Lol. Im sure that i can get people on here with good ways to make it btter. But thanks for the heads up

Steel Vanguard is fairly straightforward: it's essentially focussing on a particular weapon and its associated style of fighting. The easiest way to handle that would be to come across a mentor - and perhaps that mentor can "teach" the PC the use of the prerequisite Steel Vanguard Student feat.

There is some advice you can find on the net to make Nightwyrm Fortress playable but I think my advice is right: keep the background and synopsis and rewrite everything else.

On a more practical note, the encounters are too close together, there are too many monsters in most rooms and it suffers from the WotC 4E adventure design paradigm - randomly determine some level-appropriate monsters and stick them together in a room that is too small and make sure that room is close to the last room that combat took place... in a straight line with every other encounter area.

Spread the monsters out, spread the encounters out and make sure that the encounter areas are not stuck together in a straight line.

 

[Ryujin]

[MENTION=87576]Scrivener of Doom[/MENTION] the group will all be helping save people locked up to be used as "cable" for the more powerful and intelligent undead, all the while moving toward the center of the darkness, the capital of the town. The players started their quest here so returning here will be quite a shock. The town will be taken over by the undead. Im going to use assault on nightwyrm fortress. This will take them into the kings castle and from there to the shadowfel, moving into the epic tier. I only want a few levels in Hrothgar (the city) maybe levels 18-20. When they hit 20 they will be heading to nighttime fortress. Running around in the sewers with in Hrothgar but i need stuff for them to hind behind while in the open. running around in the wilderness helping people fighting death cults the whole ca-bam.


And another thing. How can i introduce the players to their paragon paths. I want to have a story. I don't know what any of them are going t be so just general stuff would be helpful.

If there's any real role playing going on, then hopefully they've been giving you signs about where they want to go in Paragon. If there's any doubt just do what I did, at both Paragon and Epic; ask them.

 

[Grimmjow]

Steel Vanguard is fairly straightforward: it's essentially focussing on a particular weapon and its associated style of fighting. The easiest way to handle that would be to come across a mentor - and perhaps that mentor can "teach" the PC the use of the prerequisite Steel Vanguard Student feat.

well the fighter just told me that she wants to try a different charter when we start, so her fighter is just gonna vanish (her idea, ill bring the fighter back later when i need a twist )

If there's any real role playing going on, then hopefully they've been giving you signs about where they want to go in Paragon. If there's any doubt just do what I did, at both Paragon and Epic; ask them.

The roll playing that is going on is more like our bladesinger trying to get married to a local girl type thing. i have tried talking to them and most of them don't know what they want to be in paragon tier. The only one is my brother, who plays an invoker. he was talking about flame of hope. I believe that was it. i could be wrong. He serves pelor (hope god and fire god) and flame of hope would be the one i think it is. How would i be able to work that into an undead campaign??

 

[Grimmjow]

hey [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION] this is the forum I've been collecting my thoughts on for the re-launch of my campaign. My party is level 7, nearly 8. The two big things that come to mind when making monsters for this game is:
1) undead that have been affected by the shadow cloud (as it will be called in my game). The shadow cloud is a cloud (or a shadow if you like) that covers a 20 mile radius, centered around the old capital of the nation the players are in. This shadow allows undead to be out during the day. I want ideas on how to make lesser undead (zombies, skeletons, ghouls, ext.) stand out while i this shadowed land. It won't affect the more intelligent undead (vampires, death knights, litchis ext.) any ideas for that??
2) before the players go into the shadowed land they will enter a subterranean level of a tamale that belongs to pelor. The goal of this adventure will be to find the rune of endless fire and use it to make eternal sunlight around their village to keep the undead at bay. When they get through traps and monsters they will meet an angel who has been tasked with guarding the rune. He has been down there for so long he's gone crazy. How can i take an angel of valor, make him look more like an angel of pelor, and show that he is crazy. i know that he will ask the deva (angel) of pelor if he has been come to take his place. That will allow for either a skill challenge (convince him to leave) or a combat challenge (tell him your not here to take his place, then kill him and take the rune) type thing. What do you think about this one








Also, while I'm on the temple quest i have need for some help in developing a trap. I call this trap "The Breath of Pelor". I plan on having about 10 blaster statues (each looking like a different avatar of pelor {religion check}) going down a hall. This stops my war priest from using shadow jaunt to skip through it. But what else can i do to make the trap more interesting and pelor themed at the same time. The trap will be the first thing in the dungeon, so i want it to be exciting, but i don't want talk about extended rests right after the trap in done with. any ideas anyone?

 

[Ryujin]

well the fighter just told me that she wants to try a different charter when we start, so her fighter is just gonna vanish (her idea, ill bring the fighter back later when i need a twist )

The roll playing that is going on is more like our bladesinger trying to get married to a local girl type thing. i have tried talking to them and most of them don't know what they want to be in paragon tier. The only one is my brother, who plays an invoker. he was talking about flame of hope. I believe that was it. i could be wrong. He serves pelor (hope god and fire god) and flame of hope would be the one i think it is. How would i be able to work that into an undead campaign??

I should think that the Flame of Hope would be one of the easiest Paragon Paths to integrate into such a campaign. The world is overrun with undead. The surrounding land is falling to them. Despair is everywhere. Where more do you need hope? And the embodiment of hope being someone who throws cleansing radiant fire at the undead? Perfect!

So Pelor's Exarch comes down, from on high, to bestow the literal Flame of Hope upon the Invoker. If the Exarch dies, then so goes hope.

 

[the Jester]

hey [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION] this is the forum I've been collecting my thoughts on for the re-launch of my campaign. My party is level 7, nearly 8. The two big things that come to mind when making monsters for this game is:
1) undead that have been affected by the shadow cloud (as it will be called in my game). The shadow cloud is a cloud (or a shadow if you like) that covers a 20 mile radius, centered around the old capital of the nation the players are in. This shadow allows undead to be out during the day. I want ideas on how to make lesser undead (zombies, skeletons, ghouls, ext.) stand out while i this shadowed land. It won't affect the more intelligent undead (vampires, death knights, litchis ext.) any ideas for that??

First off, why don't you want it to apply to the more powerful/intelligent undead?

Do you want the shadow cloud to function like a terrain effect, or do you want to change the monsters themselves?

One option might be to give lesser (non-minion) undead regeneration while in the shadow cloud (with a "if the undead takes radiant damage, it loses regeneration until the end of its next turn") clause. Since vampires already have regeneration, this doesn't buff them, but it will still work for things like death knights and liches.

Another choice might be a theme or template (but warning, 4e templates blow).

2) before the players go into the shadowed land they will enter a subterranean level of a tamale that belongs to pelor. The goal of this adventure will be to find the rune of endless fire and use it to make eternal sunlight around their village to keep the undead at bay. When they get through traps and monsters they will meet an angel who has been tasked with guarding the rune. He has been down there for so long he's gone crazy. How can i take an angel of valor, make him look more like an angel of pelor, and show that he is crazy. i know that he will ask the deva (angel) of pelor if he has been come to take his place. That will allow for either a skill challenge (convince him to leave) or a combat challenge (tell him your not here to take his place, then kill him and take the rune) type thing. What do you think about this one

Sounds pretty cool, I'd make the angel a solo version. For the skill challenge, I'd make it a little more complex than just "convince him to leave"- maybe there's an action you can take elsewhere in the dungeon that allows him to leave; stage 1 of the skill challenge is to convince him that he wants to leave, and when you finish stage 1 he reveals what you have to do to break the binding that keeps him in place. Stage 2 is to break the binding- maybe there's a religious ritual that must be performed, or perhaps a seal must be sundered, etc; I would make it so that stage 2 has a different set of skills that apply than stage 1.

Also, while I'm on the temple quest i have need for some help in developing a trap. I call this trap "The Breath of Pelor". I plan on having about 10 blaster statues (each looking like a different avatar of pelor {religion check}) going down a hall. This stops my war priest from using shadow jaunt to skip through it. But what else can i do to make the trap more interesting and pelor themed at the same time. The trap will be the first thing in the dungeon, so i want it to be exciting, but i don't want talk about extended rests right after the trap in done with. any ideas anyone?

What if, when they reach the far side of the hall, they discover that the door in the end is false? The real exit is a secret door that opens when one of the statues is physically manipulated and pushed along a hidden track beneath it- basically, Mr. Warpriest uses his shadow jaunt to bypass the trap, only to discover that he has been tricked and is now on the wrong side of the hall. The "secret door opens with manipulation of statue" bit also means that the party has to interact with the trap in order to keep going along this route.

(Although I'm pretty strongly anti-railroad, traps that the pcs must pass in order to enter a dungeon make perfect sense to me, and definitely don't cause my railroad alarm to flash.)