Beholder Antimagic Ray vs Wiz Antimagic field

[Greenfield]

I'd have a problem with him using eye beams and anti-magic on the same people in a single round. I'd have to dig out the Beholder text to be sure, but I believe that this sort of thing is out of bounds, per RAW, for this creature.

 

[Frostbiter01]

I'd have a problem with him using eye beams and anti-magic on the same people in a single round. I'd have to dig out the Beholder text to be sure, but I believe that this sort of thing is out of bounds, per RAW, for this creature.

The rays are free actions and with flyby attack it means it can move attack and move again. The only thing you cant do is keep the eye opening at the front 90 degree arc and still fire rays. T=in this case the eye is looking forward while the beholder tilts and the basically firing down the shaft with a set of 3 eyes which are below it and yet tilting are really to their left. Then tilt t their right for 3 more eyes then move again by rotating and look down the shaft. Pretty much all within the rules. Finally a beholder to give them a challenge.

Also since they are free actions like yelling is, can't they fire these eyes at anytime during their move in any square?

 

[Imaculata]

Imaculata thank you for those pointers. SO if he has flyby then you are saying I could tilt left hit with 3 eyes keep moving tilt to the right and hit with 3 eyes and finally come to an end of my double move facing down filing the tube like tunnel that it made (very smooth) and hit them with antimagic ray?

Yes, he can attack while flying, and can attack only 3 times in every arc (be it up, down, left, right, forward, backward). This means that if there are two targets behind him, he can either hit one of them with all 3 rays, or hit one of them with 2 rays, and the other with one. But he can also attack any other targets in the other arcs up to 3 times.

Keep in mind though that he only tilts his whole body once during a round, which determines where the anti magic ray will be facing from his central eye. Also keep in mind that he cannot attack any targets in front of him with rays if his central eye is open. Because the anti magic field also suppresses his own magical attacks.

All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed - even the beholder's own eye rays

Also keep in mind that the Beholder only decides once per round if the central eye is open or closed.



If this sounds scary... it is. Beholders are feared for a good reason. I think a lot of DM's don't read the text well, and don't play them to their max. But if you follow the text literally, it is a very scary opponent. In fact, I can think of no reason why the Beholder wouldn't constantly stay on the move. I don't think a Beholder wants to get into close combat ever. He keeps flying around, avoiding close combat, and staying out of range, while hitting the players with rays constantly.

Also when I let them fall they can use a free action or grab if there was anything (there is not) as a DC 15 reflex but don't allow the rogue to tumble to ignore some damage?

That is up to you. If there is nothing to grab hold of, then you can decide not to allow a reflex save. Or if the walls are slippery, then you could raise the DC to 20. But anyone that can tumble should always be allowed to do so to reduce the fall damage. After all, that is what that skill is for.

Just how far of a fall must a character be falling to get at least a standard action like pull a ring out of their pouch?

That is entirely up to you. If they are falling down a skyscraper, then they have plenty of time for a standard action. But if it's a drop from a castle wall, or lower, then I would personally only allow free actions.

And don't forget to abuse the terrain like crazy. A beholder loves using Telekinesis to launch adventurers off platforms, and flying too high for the melee characters to reach him. His flyby attack allows him to fly to a position where he has cover from ranged attacks (such as behind a pillar) while still hitting the players with attacks as he passes through their line of sight. Beholders are intelligent opponents, that won't fall for player trickery easily, nor are they likely to act suicidal, unless they are desperately protecting something.

 

[Frostbiter01]

I was keeping the eye open and moving the Beholder t the shaft tilting and firing 3 rays then on second move tilt the other way and move till I was once again over the hole but looking downward. IF you're saying I can only fire 3 rays before positioning the main eye downward then what happens if I turn upside down so all my stalks are facing down the passage on the first pass then shift the eye the other way so the main eye is pointing down. Do I get to fire all 10 eyes before the antimagic? Can we assume the player turned to stone that falls 40' to the floor breaks apart and dies?

With the eye stalks attacking as a free action then I am not sure what Flyby feat gives me?

 

[Dandu]

It lets you use some movement, take a standard action, then finish your movement. You could come out of cover, shoot, and then fly back behind cover.

 

[Frostbiter01]

It lets you use some movement, take a standard action, then finish your movement. You could come out of cover, shoot, and then fly back behind cover.

Unfortunately, the beholder only standard action is to bite you. So even if behind cover all I have to do is move out 20' (his movement) and then turn around and head back 20' back into cover with my 2nd move firing all my rays as I go and come back since they fire as free actions.

 

[Imaculata]

I was keeping the eye open and moving the Beholder t the shaft tilting and firing 3 rays then on second move tilt the other way and move till I was once again over the hole but looking downward. IF you're saying I can only fire 3 rays before positioning the main eye downward then what happens if I turn upside down so all my stalks are facing down the passage on the first pass then shift the eye the other way so the main eye is pointing down. Do I get to fire all 10 eyes before the antimagic?

The main eye is either open or closed during its round. You don't fire the eyes before or after closing it. You either fire them while the central eye is open, or while it is closed. But if the eye is open, you cannot fire rays in the direction where the central eye is facing. So yes, if played correctly, you can fire all 10 eyes at once.

Can we assume the player turned to stone that falls 40' to the floor breaks apart and dies?

No, there are rules for that. The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. So that's 4d6 damage. Stone has a hardness of 8 (15 inch thickness), and a Masonry wall (1 ft. thick) has 90 hitpoints. But the Statue spell states that the subject keeps his original hitpoints, so that is what I would do. Allow the player to keep his original hitpoints, and give him hardness 8. He takes 4d6 damage, and he only crumbles if this reduces his hitpoints to 0. (Not likely)

If the statue is damaged, the subject still has these deformities after returning back to his/her normal self. So if the arm of the statue is severed, then that's a severed arm.

With the eye stalks attacking as a free action then I am not sure what Flyby feat gives me?

It allows your Beholder to move from cover to cover, while still firing all his rays. So he could be safely out of range of any fighter, paladin or barbarian, while being in cover against any ranged weapons at all times, and STILL get to attack. No matter where he moves, if he passes through their line of sight even for a split second, he can use his free action to attack.

Regarding the tumble skill:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: left"] [TR] [TD]Tumble DC[/TD] [TD]Task[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is when determining damage.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks of opportunity normally. Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]25[/TD] [TD]Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent) as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Check separately for each opponent. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]30[/TD] [TD]Treat a fall as if it were 20 feet shorter when determining damage.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]35[/TD] [TD]Free stand.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]45[/TD] [TD]Treat a fall as if it were 30 feet shorter when determining damage.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]50[/TD] [TD]Climb vertical surface.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]60[/TD] [TD]Treat a fall as if it were 40 feet shorter when determining damage.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]100[/TD] [TD]Ignore falling damage.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

 

[Greenfield]

Antimagic Cone (Su): A beholder’scentral eye continually produces a 150-foot cone of antimagic. This functions just like antimagic field (caster level 13th). All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed—even the beholder’s own eye rays. Once each round, during its turn, the beholder decides whether the antimagic cone is active or not (the beholder deactivates the cone by shutting its central eye).

So covering an area with AntiMagic is legal, in any direction. Attacking with up to three eye rays in any direction is legal ("Direction" meaning a 90 degree arc.) Applying both in the same 90 degree arc? No, the AntoMagic cone negates all spell effects, including its own eye rays.

Also, your "shot on the run" trick is a good one, but has its limits: "Move over the shaft and AMC or eye-beam, then move out of the line of fire" is nasty. The AMC will negate Levitate, Spider Climb and Fly effects, whether from potions, spells or items. But as soon as the Beholder leaves his firing position above that shaft, all their items, potions and spells come right back into effect.

Which is to say that they fall for an immeasurably short period of time. How long? Undefined, by the rules, but far less than a round. I guess it's up to the DM to decide how much time is spent making the free action in the middle of the "on the run" sequence.

Note that, by the book, Quickened or Free actions are so fast that they don't provoke AoO, which means faster than a person can react.

Including science (which I normally abhor in magic/fantasy settings), human neurons take about 1/20th of a second to respond, 1/15th for some who are exceptionally fast, and an actual conscious reaction (as opposed to a true reflex) is about a quarter of a second.

You don't fall very far in a quarter second. Less than 4 feet (1.28 meters).

If your Beholder wants them to fall all the way down, he has to stay in place and keep the Anti Magic Cone on them. No attack-on-the-run. Any who are able to make a ranged attack will get their shot.

 

[Frostbiter01]

If your Beholder wants them to fall all the way down, he has to stay in place and keep the Anti Magic Cone on them. No attack-on-the-run. Any who are able to make a ranged attack will get their shot.

I think if you see how the lair is set up is solves some of your points. First the shaft is going up 140' no fly spell will get you up in one round. Second point, the Beholder knows when they enter the shaft. The Third point the Beholder an use one movement tilted or not and fire 3 rays down the pit it then uses it's second movement to turn and face the eye down the tunnel There is no restriction that Beholders cannot turn down tunnels as soon as he does his eye is now filling the whole tunnel. Are you saying we have to see what he does next round to see if the eye stayed more than one second. I think someone already said as soon as they are hit with the ray they fall and the limited fall they have nothing but a free action and they don't wait to fall till their init. SO as soon as the beholder moves to come down the shaft at the top the antimagic ray which was open causes al them to fall straight to the bottom. Because the shaft was made with disintegrate it is moth as silk and no handholds. I will give the Rogue the tumble feet to bounce off the wall. But the others go splat even if the very next thing is he goes back on to his original position away from the shaft on his next turn. I don't see how he has to wait at all. another half round to make sure. In fact the way it was explained after they fall they get their init, notice after they fall all the way down.

So not sure where you are getting the mechanics but I have already been warned not to try to mix science with magic which using the falling feet per second based on physics and trying to determine how much of the 6 second round was spent facing them.

 

[Greenfield]

Technically, since facing changes are free, the Beholder could fire three eye rays down the tunnel, rotate 90 degrees and fire another three eye rays down the same tunnel, rotate again and fire the last three eye rays down that same tunnel, then turn and aim the Big Eye down as well.

Except, of course, that the rules say he can only fire three (maximum) in any quarter. If you allow the facing change to fire and then suppress, then it would also allow the Gattling gun effect, and I think we all know that that's wrong.

There is normally no "facing" in combat, the Beholder being a rare exception. Because of this there are no rules for whether it takes a Move or a 5'step to change facing or not. So, based on what's (not) written in the rules, his ability to turn and select his weapon's arc doesn't need any kind of "on the run" ability, no Move available.

As laid out in the Combat section for the creature, he picks a facing for the round, then opens fire. He decides if the big eye AMC effect is on or off as part of that, and can't change it until next round.

Now, as I wrote in a different thread, he could choose a 45 degree facing so has to split the area the PCs are in. That way he gets to bring two arcs of fire into play, he just has to limit himself to one set of three for the "left" side of he field, and a different set of three for the "right" side. So you can game him a bit, but you can't use eye rays on a group, then AMC them as well.