D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then shares WotC sales data.

[mamba]

Right, that means that a full third of the groggiest grogs moved within a year.

not sure how groggy you have to be to go to a convention. I am not saying 1/3 having switched and 1/6 (if the numbers hold) mixing in 2024 are bad numbers for 2024, in fact I consider them pretty good. The point was that most of the people in the audience did not mix and match, contrary to what @bedir than expected based on the presentation’s title.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I know there are lots of other games. I love both Daggerheart and Shadowdark. But that does not have anything to do with wanting to see an actual new edition of D&D after 10 years of 5E. The "D&Dness" of it matters, after all.

And people that like 5E will lose nothing if there is a 6E, since 5E is in the public domain. So if you have that, why would it be bad if 6E changed the game again?

Unless the "D&Dness" of it does, in fact, matter?

Wanting a new edition of D&D, especially now in a post Creative Commons world, does not take anything away from you any more than suggesting I play something else takes something away from me.

For me, I separate D&D from WOTC and Hasbro and extend the bubble of "what is D&D" out to other games too. All the eight games I mention are flavors of D&D as far as I'm concerned. The trademark and the brand are legal separations but the spirit of D&D is within all of those games. I recommend others separate their love of D&D from the brand and company. That way, whatever WOTC decides to do, we're happy. We have lots of options.

Hasbro isn't nearly as loyal to us as we might be to them. Look at their strategic direction with 4e. They weren't concerned about making a D&D for the fans of D&D. They were told to make a D&D for fans of World of Warcraft (source, Rob Heinsoo on his interview with Peter Atkenson). WOTC's business drive may sometimes align with our interest in the hobby but may just as likely not. For example, this comes right out of their most recent quarterly earnings call:

"That's in addition to a continued focus on building out the core business, the core TRPG, with a special emphasis on D&D Beyond as the best place to play a TRPG."

I know they want D&D Beyond to be the best place to play a TTRPG but I sure don't. The best place is at my table with my friends.

My mantra:

Don't let WOTC determine your happiness with D&D and don't let Hasbro determine your happiness with RPGs.

 

[Reynard]

For me, I separate D&D from WOTC and Hasbro and extend the bubble of "what is D&D" out to other games too. All the eight games I mention are flavors of D&D as far as I'm concerned. The trademark and the brand are legal separations but the spirit of D&D is within all of those games. I recommend others separate their love of D&D from the brand and company. That way, whatever WOTC decides to do, we're happy. We have lots of options.

There is a point at which a category is so broad as to be useless. What you call "flavors of D&D" I simply call adventure fantasy RPGs.

Hasbro isn't nearly as loyal to us as we might be to them. Look at their strategic direction with 4e. They weren't concerned about making a D&D for the fans of D&D. They were told to make a D&D for fans of World of Warcraft (source, Rob Heinsoo on his interview with Peter Atkenson). WOTC's business drive may sometimes align with our interest in the hobby but may just as likely not. For example, this comes right out of their most recent quarterly earnings call:

"That's in addition to a continued focus on building out the core business, the core TRPG, with a special emphasis on D&D Beyond as the best place to play a TRPG."

I know they want D&D Beyond to be the best place to play a TTRPG but I sure don't. The best place is at my table with my friends.

My mantra:

Don't let WOTC determine your happiness with D&D and don't let Hasbro determine your happiness with RPGs.

I guess I did not say it so it probably was not easy to intuit: I don't care if Hasbro/WotC are the ones to make a 6E. In fact, if D&D fell and got to get picked up and reborn again like at the beginning of the WotC era, I am almost certain it would be a better game for it. Hasbro will never let go of the IP, of course, so that is a fool's dream.

 

[KYRON45]

There is a point at which a category is so broad as to be useless. What you call "flavors of D&D" I simply call adventure fantasy RPGs.

I guess I did not say it so it probably was not easy to intuit: I don't care if Hasbro/WotC are the ones to make a 6E. In fact, if D&D fell and got to get picked up and reborn again like at the beginning of the WotC era, I am almost certain it would be a better game for it. Hasbro will never let go of the IP, of course, so that is a fool's dream.

I'm pretty sure that was his point.
"D&D" belongs to all of us.....but mostly it belongs to the people making the money from it.

Ask a random person on the street and they'll probably ignore you....i mean.....they'll likely think any RPG is D&D.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I don't care if Hasbro/WotC are the ones to make a 6E. In fact, if D&D fell and got to get picked up and reborn again like at the beginning of the WotC era, I am almost certain it would be a better game for it. Hasbro will never let go of the IP, of course, so that is a fool's dream.

At that point aren't you just chasing the owner of the trademark though? What's to say the group who buys the trademark are any better than the designers working on other flavors of fantasy RPGs? I just don't see how the actual D&D logo matters that much to each of us individually. Brand recognition is certainly a thing but that doesn't have a lot to do with game design.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Ask a random person on the street and they'll probably ignore you....i mean.....they'll likely think any RPG is D&D.

I was talking to my wife about this deciding where I thought the D&D term mattered and where it did not. If I'm talking to someone on the street about my hobby, I'll just say D&D even if its Dragonbane or Tales of the Valiant or 13th Age. They won't know the difference. If I talk to someone who will know the difference, I'll discuss the specific system I'm using.

When I talk about the hobby mostly I say "I publish books for tabletop roleplaying games like D&D" and they get it.

What I'm mostly getting at in this discussion is that I think its healthier to lean on WOTC as a publisher of great RPG products along with lots of other publishers instead of depending on them to lead the way.

I like D&D 2024 a lot. I obviously like 5e overall a lot. I also like Dragonbane and 13th Age and others. So when I want a different flavor than 5e, I'm not waiting for WOTC to do 6e and I have no need to rely on them making 6e into any sort of system I want to play because I already have more systems to play than I know what to do with.

 

[darjr]

I was at the panel, I was one of two who still played AD&D at the panel.

Talking to some of the folks in the audience it did seem to me, whatever they were using, they all seemed interested in the idea of incorporating other stuff from other versions of 5e.

 

[Parmandur]

not sure how groggy you have to be to go to a convention. I am not saying 1/3 having switched and 1/6 (if the numbers hold) mixing in 2024 are bad numbers for 2024, in fact I consider them pretty good. The point was that most of the people in the audience did not mix and match, contrary to what @bedir than expected based on the presentation’s title.

To go to a convention alone, pretty groggy. To go to a panel like this? Super groggy.

 

[Parmandur]

I was at the panel, I was one of two who still played AD&D at the panel.

Talking to some of the folks in the audience it did seem to me, whatever they were using, they all seemed interested in the idea of incorporating other stuff from other versions of 5e.

It's fun and easy!

 

[TwoSix]

At that point aren't you just chasing the owner of the trademark though? What's to say the group who buys the trademark are any better than the designers working on other flavors of fantasy RPGs? I just don't see how the actual D&D logo matters that much to each of us individually. Brand recognition is certainly a thing but that doesn't have a lot to do with game design.

What game you play at your own tables is certainly up to you.

What game benefits from the network effects of having a brand name and a very large pool of players precisely because of that brand name is very much a function of brand recognition alone.