D&D General Ben Riggs interviews Fred Hicks and Cam Banks, then shares WotC sales data.

[mamba]

If the last time we've seen a big change in the game was thirty or forty years ago, is it really all that unfair to say that D&D isn't really all that innovative and the fandom is not interested in innovation?

if this were accurate, no…

No matter what you think qualifies as a big change, the most recent one must at a minimum be 4e, or newer than that. If 4e was not a big change then there basically are almost no TTRPGs that are a big change removed from D&D and the whole industry does not innovate

 

[Parmandur]

if this were accurate, no…

No matter what you think qualifies as a big change, the most recent one must at a minimum be 4e, or newer than that. If 4e was not a big change then there basically are almost no TTRPGs that are a big change removed from D&D and the whole industry does not innovate

For context, he liked 4E a good deal (and why not, it was good at what it did), he would have liked it if 4E was received more...charitably?

 

[mamba]

For context, he liked 4E a good deal (and why not, it was good at what it did), he would have liked it if 4E was received more...charitably?

it’s not about liking it or not, it’s about whether it is considered a big change in comparison to what came before it, all the way back to 1e (if the last innovation / big change were 40 years ago, as claimed).

If 1e and 4e are ‘basically the same, certainly no innovation to be found’ then that covers a whole wide range of TTRPGs that are equally not innovative

 

[Scott Christian]

Maybe just maybe most people don’t demand perfection. Maybe just maybe the broken game is houseruled into being fixed at most tables. I think there’s lots of better maybe just maybes than the game has no problems because it’s popular.

I didn't say the game has no problems. And I especially didn't link it with popular = no problems. What I said was, maybe D&D players might already have been attuned to all the chaos that internet naysayers bring, and therefore, they didn't get derailed like other mediums.
I also stated that with so many people playing the game and not having an issue with a rule or spell or class, then maybe, just maybe, the people with the problems were more localized.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Look at all those really innovative mechanics... oh right, the new psion is a warmed over caster. Exactly what people demanded.

According to Jeremy Crawford, that's exactly what people wanted. Their survey results said players didn't want to learn a new mechanic unique to a class. He said this in one of the Unearthed Arcana videos on YouTube I don't know how many years ago.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

IMHO the 5E design team has previewed some cool mechanics and they've almost always been rejected by the community. Kind of a bummer.

 

[Parmandur]

IMHO the 5E design team has previewed some cool mechanics and they've almost always been rejected by the community. Kind of a bummer.

I mean, not all. Most, yes. I kinda would have liked the unified Subclass progression, and I thinknthe game would be stronger if the Proficiency Dice had made it in...but what can you do?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

IMHO the 5E design team has previewed some cool mechanics and they've almost always been rejected by the community. Kind of a bummer.

Absolutely.

New take on Sorcerers that makes them ACTUALLY completely distinct from Wizards? That gives the origin of their magic a central, leading role? NOPE, screw that noise, absolutely the hell not, give us the blandest possible crap instead. New take on Warlocks that puts their unsettling, self-negating behavior front and center, making every invocation, every exchange, a genuine sacrifice? Absolutely not, why would anyone ever think of doing that???

Whatever folks may think about it, it is 100% true that from "D&D Next" onward, D&D has been absolutely locked down by the lore police who need nothing to change ever, unless changing by becoming more bland, more streamlined, more identical to every other option.

 

[Hussar]

According to Jeremy Crawford, that's exactly what people wanted. Their survey results said players didn't want to learn a new mechanic unique to a class. He said this in one of the Unearthed Arcana videos on YouTube I don't know how many years ago.

Oh, yes. Absolutely. But, apparently, I'm 100% in the wrong here for saying this. So, I guess you're wrong too.

I have to say that the scales have fallen from my eyes. I mean, one of the big innovations in D&D being touted here is a 30 some year old setting whose fans have strangled any changes at birth. Planescape is certainly a source of amazing innovation and Planescape fans have welcomed changes and new ideas with open arms and early adoption. I am apparently entirely corrected. D&D is a bastion of innovation where the fandom welcomes the new and original with open arms and welcoming smiles.

I mean, @Alzrius points to a 30 year old source book that was reprinted as an example of amazing innovation in D&D. That's certainly a great example of the level of innovation that we know and love in D&D.

Hey, it's only been what, 20 years since the last time we saw an original setting for D&D outside of a couple of one off books? The one class added in 5e was a recreation of a 20 year old class and now, in a flurry of originality, we're going to get a psion class. We only saw that printed for the first time, what, thirty five years ago? Somewhere in that neighbourhood.

But, sure, D&D is a hotbed of originality, new mechanics and innovative design. I totally see the truth now. Thanks guys for helping me to see.

 

[Hussar]

if this were accurate, no…

No matter what you think qualifies as a big change, the most recent one must at a minimum be 4e, or newer than that. If 4e was not a big change then there basically are almost no TTRPGs that are a big change removed from D&D and the whole industry does not innovate

Ok, let's say you're right. Fair enough. 4e is a big change. Totally accepted by the fandom wasn't it? Oh, wait, no it wasn't. The fandom to this day have noped so hard on it that we still cannot talk about 4e without edition warriors coming out of the woodwork.
And, let's not forget, 4e came out in 2008. If you're going to point to the innovation of D&D and your example is almost twenty years ago... I'm going to say that innovation isn't real high on the list of priorities of D&D players.