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<blockquote data-quote="mellored" data-source="post: 9536945" data-attributes="member: 6801209">But still not as good as +3 to all saves, that sometimes works for allies too.That's going to vary by table.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would put fighter ahead at 3 short rests.Not sure about 2.Not as good as a Find Steed for mobility.60' and Disengage each turn, no bonus action.And the Fighter might of used second wind / tactical shift.&nbsp; They got more uses.I don't see how that fighter is better at range.Paladin can also get archery style and use divine favor.&nbsp; Only the smites are out.&nbsp;&nbsp; And action surge takes a big hit with the smaller damage die.Feel free to run the numbers with the subclass if you want.But IMO +3 to hit all the time (Devotion) vs +1d8 to-hit on 4 attacks (Battlemaster Precision) is close enough.And immunity to charm is better than knowing resistance at the cost of a battlemaster die.Devotion can't change weapons though.And I really like shining smite, so Vengence seems redundant.&nbsp; Though Vengeance with Divine Favor works, but party damage is better IMO.Fighter: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Con, 14 Wis, 10 Dex, 8 Int 8 Cha.Paladin: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Cha, 14 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 8 Wis.Point buy.&nbsp; Though I didn't look up what background they would need...Fighter can start with Tough and Paladin can start with Musician.&nbsp; Not sure how to calculate giving the party heroic inspiration, so I'll leave that as is.Unfortunately it looks like Cha Shillelagh is not going to work with the offical backgrounds.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mellored, post: 9536945, member: 6801209"] But still not as good as +3 to all saves, that sometimes works for allies too. That's going to vary by table. I would put fighter ahead at 3 short rests. Not sure about 2. Not as good as a Find Steed for mobility. 60' and Disengage each turn, no bonus action. And the Fighter might of used second wind / tactical shift. They got more uses. I don't see how that fighter is better at range. Paladin can also get archery style and use divine favor. Only the smites are out. And action surge takes a big hit with the smaller damage die. Feel free to run the numbers with the subclass if you want. But IMO +3 to hit all the time (Devotion) vs +1d8 to-hit on 4 attacks (Battlemaster Precision) is close enough. And immunity to charm is better than knowing resistance at the cost of a battlemaster die. Devotion can't change weapons though. And I really like shining smite, so Vengence seems redundant. Though Vengeance with Divine Favor works, but party damage is better IMO. Fighter: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Con, 14 Wis, 10 Dex, 8 Int 8 Cha. Paladin: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Cha, 14 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 8 Wis. Point buy. Though I didn't look up what background they would need... Fighter can start with Tough and Paladin can start with Musician. Not sure how to calculate giving the party heroic inspiration, so I'll leave that as is. Unfortunately it looks like Cha Shillelagh is not going to work with the offical backgrounds. [/QUOTE]

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