Best creature(s) to call using Gate?

[NarkNark]

I have a LG 22nd level cleric and have never cast Gate, but we have some climactic battles coming up and I would like a little extra help and am willing to spend the XP for it. So under the rules as I interpret them, I could bring in one 44 HD critter, or multiple other critters as long as their total HD do not exceed 22. Obviously, the single 44 HD critter would be preferable.
My limitation is that the target must be lawful good or neutral good, and it must be from the core books.

So, I know I could bring in a single Solar, but it seems like a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon is a viable option. Does that seem like a legitimate use of the spell? The description states that you can "call a kind of creature instead of a known individual", so if you were the DM, would you say that a "great wyrm gold dragon" is a kind of creature, or would you limit it to just "gold dragon", or even to just "dragon"? Assuming you would not allow that, what spell or spells could I cast to learn the name of a living Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, and if I do learn the name of one, then would allow the dragon to be summoned as a named individual (which the spell allows)? I think this would be allowable under the rules, but I've never seen anyone mention this use of the Gate spell. It seems like people just use it to bring in a Solar or something like that, even though the big old dragon is a 41 HD 37 CR creature that would be a heck of a lot more powerful.

Or are there even more powerful options out there that I am missing, possibly with templates applied? (Again, same questions apply there.)

 

[NarkNark]

I should also include Lawful Neutral or Neutral creatures in the list of options, in case anyone has any other suggestions.

 

[Rackhir]

I have a LG 22nd level cleric and have never cast Gate, but we have some climactic battles coming up and I would like a little extra help and am willing to spend the XP for it. So under the rules as I interpret them, I could bring in one 44 HD critter, or multiple other critters as long as their total HD do not exceed 22. Obviously, the single 44 HD critter would be preferable.
My limitation is that the target must be lawful good or neutral good, and it must be from the core books.

So, I know I could bring in a single Solar, but it seems like a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon is a viable option. Does that seem like a legitimate use of the spell? The description states that you can "call a kind of creature instead of a known individual", so if you were the DM, would you say that a "great wyrm gold dragon" is a kind of creature, or would you limit it to just "gold dragon", or even to just "dragon"? Assuming you would not allow that, what spell or spells could I cast to learn the name of a living Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, and if I do learn the name of one, then would allow the dragon to be summoned as a named individual (which the spell allows)? I think this would be allowable under the rules, but I've never seen anyone mention this use of the Gate spell. It seems like people just use it to bring in a Solar or something like that, even though the big old dragon is a 41 HD 37 CR creature that would be a heck of a lot more powerful.

Or are there even more powerful options out there that I am missing, possibly with templates applied? (Again, same questions apply there.)

Well the reason why people like bringing in the Solar, is because they can "Cascade". Where you have the Solar gate in another Solar, who gates in another Solar... Rinse, Wash, Repeat. This is possible because creatures Gated in aren't under summoned creature restrictions. So while a Gold dragon might be more powerful than a Solar, it isn't more powerful than 20 of them. Of course this is a game breaking kind of abuse and you might want to avoid it for just that reason.

As far as finding names. You could just use a Miracle to get the name of a GW Gold Dragon. Legend Lore/Vison would work as well (They're mage spells, so you'd need to get one to cast it for your or you could mimic it using Miracle).

 

[NarkNark]

Well the reason why people like bringing in the Solar, is because they can "Cascade". Where you have the Solar gate in another Solar, who gates in another Solar... Rinse, Wash, Repeat. This is possible because creatures Gated in aren't under summoned creature restrictions. So while a Gold dragon might be more powerful than a Solar, it isn't more powerful than 20 of them. Of course this is a game breaking kind of abuse and you might want to avoid it for just that reason.

I would avoid doing that myself. I'm not looking for something game-breaking, just maximizing what is allowable by the rules. Also, just FYI, a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon knows and can cast spells as a 19th level sorcerer, so it could know Gate as one of its spells and produce the same Cascade effect.

As far as finding names. You could just use a Miracle to get the name of a GW Gold Dragon. Legend Lore/Vison would work as well (They're mage spells, so you'd need to get one to cast it for your or you could mimic it using Miracle).

I think Miracle may be the only way then. I looked at Legend Lore and Vision and they both seem to need some piece of information to get you started, so I think just casting it to ask "what is the name of a currently living great wyrm gold dragon" would fail. But I guess that would be up to the DM. Anyhow, casting a Miracle to get that information directly should work, without having to specifically emulate one of those spells.

 

[Rackhir]

I would avoid doing that myself. I'm not looking for something game-breaking, just maximizing what is allowable by the rules. Also, just FYI, a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon knows and can cast spells as a 19th level sorcerer, so it could know Gate as one of its spells and produce the same Cascade effect.

That also assumes the DM lets you pick it's spells. Not a great assumption IMHO.

I think Miracle may be the only way then. I looked at Legend Lore and Vision and they both seem to need some piece of information to get you started, so I think just casting it to ask "what is the name of a currently living great wyrm gold dragon" would fail. But I guess that would be up to the DM. Anyhow, casting a Miracle to get that information directly should work, without having to specifically emulate one of those spells.

You might want to consider something with the epic Pseudonatural template from the Epic Level Handbook.

http://srd.plush.org/epicNonAbominations.html#pseudonatural-troll

Not sure it's the best fit for a Lawful Good Cleric, but the epic Pseudonatural template does offer a LOT of power. Of course, you could just recast the flavor text for the template to something more suitable. Also technically since it adds to the CR of the creature and not the HD, you could get the full 44 HD + the template...

There's a bunch of other epic monsters in the link I gave. You might want to poke around in there to see if there's something that strikes your fancy.

Also try working with your DM on this. They might have some suggestions or be willing to give you a bit more slack if you can work this into the plot/background/epilogue of the campaign. Sort of like I did recently for my Alienist in a recent post of our story hour (about 2 updates back from the most recent Post in Shilsen SH).

 

[azhrei_fje]

...so I think just casting it to ask "what is the name of a currently living great wyrm gold dragon" would fail.

It wouldn't fail. The GM would simply give you the answer:

"Sir."

 

[Quartz]

Surely you Gate your deity and your deity sends something appropriate? So speak to your GM to see if he wants to invent something. Or give him a variety of critters. And perhaps the Paragon template might be more appropriate than the Pseudonatural.