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Best d20 Supers game?
- Thread starter Boarstorm
- Start date
Silvercat Moonpaw
Adventurer
There is a conversion guide at this address:Boarstorm said:
http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com/gimmicks_gadgets/cat_mutants_masterminds_second_edition.php
That's the most help I can give you, seeing as how I've only ever dealt with the 2nd ed.
Terramotus
First Post
I'd like to put in probably the only dissenting opinion that you'll hear on Mutants and Masterminds. I've never found anyone that agreed with this assessment, so keep in mind that I may be out of my mind on this.
IMO, the system isn't a good one. Sure, you can build tons of different types of heroes and villains, but the point buy system is totally off the wall. Stats have practically no bearing on results, meaning that it's easy to build a supergenius with a terribly low intelligence, or a massively strong hero with a weak strength. In fact, pumping those stats at the expense of powers seems like a bad buy. I found myself agonizing over how many points I had to waste in strength to feel ok with my strong hero. And there were no guidelines for how to do so.
There's also a lot of GM approval required for characters, as it's quite easy to build something totally wrong-headed, or to build a type of character in such a way as to circumvent the counters for a given character type. I expect a lot more out of a point buy based system.
I was super excited about the system, but ended up ditching my book - the system seemed to require far more house-ruling to make it acceptable than I was willing to do. It felt rather shoe-horned into d20 to me, and I think it would have been vastly better as a stand-alone system built for the genre.
IMO, the system isn't a good one. Sure, you can build tons of different types of heroes and villains, but the point buy system is totally off the wall. Stats have practically no bearing on results, meaning that it's easy to build a supergenius with a terribly low intelligence, or a massively strong hero with a weak strength. In fact, pumping those stats at the expense of powers seems like a bad buy. I found myself agonizing over how many points I had to waste in strength to feel ok with my strong hero. And there were no guidelines for how to do so.
There's also a lot of GM approval required for characters, as it's quite easy to build something totally wrong-headed, or to build a type of character in such a way as to circumvent the counters for a given character type. I expect a lot more out of a point buy based system.
I was super excited about the system, but ended up ditching my book - the system seemed to require far more house-ruling to make it acceptable than I was willing to do. It felt rather shoe-horned into d20 to me, and I think it would have been vastly better as a stand-alone system built for the genre.
Terramotus said:
T, is sounds like maybe you were you playing just the 1st Edition of MM? The issue of stats-vs-ability-powers was specifically one they addressed in 2E -- the "super-ability" powers were struck out and replaced with just higher ability scores. (I only played 1E briefly, but I was aware of what they changed in 2E.)
I'm usually very leery of edition changes for change's sake, but (to agree with you) that one seemed fairly well considered.
TheWyrd
First Post
Speaking as a fan M&M, Terramotus isn't really wrong. All of the objective things he says are true... or at least True-ish. M&M is extremely flexible and with that flexibility comes the option to do incredibly stupid things. (Pretty much the opposite of D&D 4E philosophy really). The point buy system only vaguely has anything to do with a character's power... the majority of that is tied up in the Power Level maximums. And oh yes.. GM oversight is an absolute must.
All of those are reasons why I love Mutants and Masterminds.
All of those are reasons why I love Mutants and Masterminds.
pawsplay
Hero
I don't think M&M is the greatest supers game ever written. In fact, I'll say up front it's inferior to Champions, Silver Age Sentinels (Tri-stat), and DC Heroes Third Edition. That said, it's an excellent game and there are some things it does better than any other supers game that are worth doing.
Because of the way it uses PL, you don't have to worry about fiddling with points so much; as long as the final result comes in under the PL, you can bet there's an adequate defense for any attack, and an adequate attack to overcome any defense. It's very quick and easy to make characters and to play. Hero points are a good genre simulation tool.
Because of the way it uses PL, you don't have to worry about fiddling with points so much; as long as the final result comes in under the PL, you can bet there's an adequate defense for any attack, and an adequate attack to overcome any defense. It's very quick and easy to make characters and to play. Hero points are a good genre simulation tool.
Yeah, in many ways, M&M is a training wheel system for HERO. It offers a lot of versatility, and it gives you the traditional archetypes out of the box, but you can't play around with type to quite the same detail. By default in M&M a powersuit is a brick. you can make them otherwise, but the implication of their archetype is a heavy hitting combat monster.
M&M2e, hands down. It's my favorite rules system. As for it allowing you to 'do stupids things', well, it only does that by dint of assuming you're not stupid. Consider it like a delicious cup of coffee that doesn't come with a label warning you not to pour the contents into you lap...
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