MithrasRahl
First Post
About to start a new campaign, 4 players in a campaign built for 6. Assuming we start at level 1 with with only ecl +0 races, what is the best party/the party we'd need to stay alive?
Best group?
- Thread starter MithrasRahl
- Start date
Sejs
First Post
Cleric, Cleric, Cleric, Cleric.
But that might be a bit bland.
Frankly, it's hard to go wrong with the Classic Four: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard. Basically you've got 4 niches to fill - melee combatant, stealth/skill guy, divine caster, arcane caster. Strongly cover those four and make sure you work as a team and you'll do dandy.
Can't stress the teamwork part enough, though. It'll make or break you, mark my words.
But that might be a bit bland.
Frankly, it's hard to go wrong with the Classic Four: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard. Basically you've got 4 niches to fill - melee combatant, stealth/skill guy, divine caster, arcane caster. Strongly cover those four and make sure you work as a team and you'll do dandy.
Can't stress the teamwork part enough, though. It'll make or break you, mark my words.
MithrasRahl said:
Well, it depends if you are more focused on sheer power or roleplaying. For sheer power, I would suggest the following classes:
Barbarian, Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard/Sorcerer.
EDIT: Can't stress the cleric part enough. Maybe even two...but, as ^ said, that could be overdoing it.
shilsen
Adventurer
There really is no one certain formula, and depending on the given campaign, some combinations may be better than others. And for some players it's more entertaining to have a group that doesn't cover all the bases. That being said, a few roles you may consider filling are:
Melee specialist
Ranged specialist
Arcane caster
Divine caster
Healer
Skill Monkey
Trapfinder
Social character
Note that some classes can fill multiple roles, e.g. a cleric with the right choices could be the melee specialist, divine caster and healer.
Melee specialist
Ranged specialist
Arcane caster
Divine caster
Healer
Skill Monkey
Trapfinder
Social character
Note that some classes can fill multiple roles, e.g. a cleric with the right choices could be the melee specialist, divine caster and healer.
Cedric
First Post
MithrasRahl said:
I'd suggest your two support classes serve some double duty.
So maybe...
Cleric/Archer (full caster levels, but archer feats)
Rogue/Wizard (the high int will help the rogue skills out anyway, and arcane trickster is a nice PrC to move into)
Barbarian/Fighter (the rage and speed boost gives your melee'er a distinct edge, but the fighter feats are needed)
Those choices give you some flexibility with your final slot...and I would suggest filling it based on your GMs style. You may need more melee, or may need a pure arcane caster.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Sejs said:Cleric, Cleric, Cleric, Cleric.
But that might be a bit bland.
Frankly, it's hard to go wrong with the Classic Four: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard. Basically you've got 4 niches to fill - melee combatant, stealth/skill guy, divine caster, arcane caster. Strongly cover those four and make sure you work as a team and you'll do dandy.
Can't stress the teamwork part enough, though. It'll make or break you, mark my words.
I'll see your Cleric x4 and raise you a...
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
RigaMortus2
First Post
On a more serious note... I like to double up on certain classes, like having 2 healers or 2 "tanks". I might suggest:
Ranger (archer)
Fighter or Barbarian
Cleric
Wizard or Sorcerer
or
Fighter or Barbarian
Cleric
Druid
Wizard or Sorcerer
If you want non-standard classes:
Psion (Kinetist) [XPH] or Warlock [CArcane]
Warblade or Crusader [ToB] or Duskblade [PHB2]
Knight [PHB2] or Incarnate or Totemist [MoI]
Healer [MiniHB] or Cleric
Ranger (archer)
Fighter or Barbarian
Cleric
Wizard or Sorcerer
or
Fighter or Barbarian
Cleric
Druid
Wizard or Sorcerer
If you want non-standard classes:
Psion (Kinetist) [XPH] or Warlock [CArcane]
Warblade or Crusader [ToB] or Duskblade [PHB2]
Knight [PHB2] or Incarnate or Totemist [MoI]
Healer [MiniHB] or Cleric
Nonlethal Force
First Post
RigaMortus2 said:I'll see your Cleric x4 and raise you a...
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Class X/Chameleon PrC X
Or ...
Cleric 10 / Radiant Servant of Pelor 10 x4
And, on a more serious note, Other people in other threads have suggested a PHB II base class party. That gives you a beguiler (who acts as a limited rogue/caster), a dragon shaman (weak healer - more like a bard/cleric mix), a duskblade (fighter/caster), and a knight (full out fighter).
The obvious limitations would be healing to full capacity (solved with a wand) and a dedicated caster. But I think it would make for an interesting game at least.
Magesmiley
Explorer
The classic 4: cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard are almost a given, however...
The tank is the most critical. You have to have a character who can take the hits, even if only to keep the rest of the group from taking it or to buy time for the casters to kill the monsters. If he has a sufficiently high AC, it also cuts down on the amount of healing that is needed (something to weight very heavily if you're short on spell power). Most of the fighting classes mix pretty well as their BAB keeps climbing, so you could probably mix in barbarian or paladin fairly painlessly. I'd avoid mixing in classes which require lighter armor as this person needs to be the pillbox whose AC is pushing the maximum you can get.
After that probably a wizard. Wizards are the most effective at quickly bringing targets down. Keep yours maxing out his level.
If the tank is properly designed (as in seems to not be needing lots and lots of healing), a dedicated cleric may be a place you can skimp a little on and multi-class. If you do this, make sure you stock up on wands (lesser vigor is my favorite). One thought is to multi-class with wizard (eventually mystic theurge) and concentrate on buff spells. A cleric/wizard with lots of buffs can work out ok. Other combinations are out there that might work. Make sure though that you're cleric isn't more than a couple of spell levels behind where he/she would've been if they'd exclusively gone for cleric.
The rogue is another place I think you can skimp a little on - however make sure he is good at searching, spotting, and dealing with traps always and also takes classes that give lots of skill points. Combing with bard and ranger could work well as they function in light armor and give some nice bonuses which mix well with rogue ranks.
The tank is the most critical. You have to have a character who can take the hits, even if only to keep the rest of the group from taking it or to buy time for the casters to kill the monsters. If he has a sufficiently high AC, it also cuts down on the amount of healing that is needed (something to weight very heavily if you're short on spell power). Most of the fighting classes mix pretty well as their BAB keeps climbing, so you could probably mix in barbarian or paladin fairly painlessly. I'd avoid mixing in classes which require lighter armor as this person needs to be the pillbox whose AC is pushing the maximum you can get.
After that probably a wizard. Wizards are the most effective at quickly bringing targets down. Keep yours maxing out his level.
If the tank is properly designed (as in seems to not be needing lots and lots of healing), a dedicated cleric may be a place you can skimp a little on and multi-class. If you do this, make sure you stock up on wands (lesser vigor is my favorite). One thought is to multi-class with wizard (eventually mystic theurge) and concentrate on buff spells. A cleric/wizard with lots of buffs can work out ok. Other combinations are out there that might work. Make sure though that you're cleric isn't more than a couple of spell levels behind where he/she would've been if they'd exclusively gone for cleric.
The rogue is another place I think you can skimp a little on - however make sure he is good at searching, spotting, and dealing with traps always and also takes classes that give lots of skill points. Combing with bard and ranger could work well as they function in light armor and give some nice bonuses which mix well with rogue ranks.
Nyaricus
First Post
Favoured Soul archery specialist of an archery god (go with elf for the +2 dex for ranged weapons) is a great start on healer/ranged spec. Consider allowing him to choose a domain, since the FS is a *bit* underpowered, and that would bring him up to the right level
Fighter/Barbarian/Knight. Any of these classes make a great melee tank, all with different angles to them. If a knight, be a human or gold dwarf (a Forgotten Realms race) that nets you -2 Dex instead of Cha. You'll be wearing heavy armour, so the Dex penalty won't hurt, and the Knights' Challenges work off Cha, so you actually need it bad - oh, and add Diplomacy to their skill list, it only makes sense. If a Barb, go with 2H greatsword half-orc - it's simple, adn it's fun and it works off of ALL POWER ATTACK ALL THE TIME (
). If a human fighter go with Sword'n'Board (where sword is any 1H melee weapon) fighter, taking a bunch of feats from the PHBII which really help this concept out for the shield part. If a Dwarven fighter, Waraxe'n'Boarder works nicely too, since EWP with the Waraxe is free for them, and the +2 Con is sweet.
For the Theif bit, consider Rogue (if most of the campaign is going to be in the city) or Scout (if it's mostly outdoors). Either way, the 8 SkP/level is essential. The rest works off of Skirmish or Sneak Attack
If going with a scout, be an elf (you need your speed, sicne it's ability Skirmish is based on movement)); if rogue, elf or halfling (elf for speed and splunking [finding secret doors is *sweet*] or halfling for defense [+1 AC and saves and saves vs fear].
For the Arcane Spellcaster, Sorcerer is possibly your best bet; go with a halfing for the race, or a human. Haflings +1 to attack (good for certain spells) +1 AC (good for himself) plus +1 to all saves, and that + against fear - so you've got some nice defenses on you side. Humans work if you're looking to get into some high-prereq PrC, but by and far, halflings, surprizingly enough, are much better Sorcs.
Hope that helps
Fighter/Barbarian/Knight. Any of these classes make a great melee tank, all with different angles to them. If a knight, be a human or gold dwarf (a Forgotten Realms race) that nets you -2 Dex instead of Cha. You'll be wearing heavy armour, so the Dex penalty won't hurt, and the Knights' Challenges work off Cha, so you actually need it bad - oh, and add Diplomacy to their skill list, it only makes sense. If a Barb, go with 2H greatsword half-orc - it's simple, adn it's fun and it works off of ALL POWER ATTACK ALL THE TIME (
). If a human fighter go with Sword'n'Board (where sword is any 1H melee weapon) fighter, taking a bunch of feats from the PHBII which really help this concept out for the shield part. If a Dwarven fighter, Waraxe'n'Boarder works nicely too, since EWP with the Waraxe is free for them, and the +2 Con is sweet.For the Theif bit, consider Rogue (if most of the campaign is going to be in the city) or Scout (if it's mostly outdoors). Either way, the 8 SkP/level is essential. The rest works off of Skirmish or Sneak Attack
If going with a scout, be an elf (you need your speed, sicne it's ability Skirmish is based on movement)); if rogue, elf or halfling (elf for speed and splunking [finding secret doors is *sweet*] or halfling for defense [+1 AC and saves and saves vs fear].For the Arcane Spellcaster, Sorcerer is possibly your best bet; go with a halfing for the race, or a human. Haflings +1 to attack (good for certain spells) +1 AC (good for himself) plus +1 to all saves, and that + against fear - so you've got some nice defenses on you side. Humans work if you're looking to get into some high-prereq PrC, but by and far, halflings, surprizingly enough, are much better Sorcs.
Hope that helps
