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<blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 874044" data-attributes="member: 530">You know, I just remembered that I actually started something along these lines a while back and I've got a bunch already done.&nbsp; The problem I had was worrying about whether they were playable or not, so I wanted to start looking around and see if there was a system out there that could incorporate these ideas without creating new rules.One thing I was looking at was taking one of the more open-ended systems like Sovereign Stone, Chaos Magic, or Elements of Magic and tweaking it to narrow the focus of what a particular mage could do based on his tradition.&nbsp; I guess Mage the Ascension would be along these lines too -- as would Riddle of Steel, which looks interesting too.&nbsp; I particularly like Sovereign Stone, because while it is open ended, it still has the concept of spells, research, and hermetic lore, which some of the other systems forego in favor of a more innate magical power.Has anyone tried to modify one of these systems to change the focus to fit their world?&nbsp; It seems like you could just change some of the various &quot;spheres&quot; or &quot;vocabulary&quot; to create a limitation on the kinds of spells to be cast.&nbsp; For example, a Namarundese Serpent Eater would be able to create any spell using the open-ended rules so long as it is somehow grounded in the traits of various snakes, player suggestions being arbitrated by the DM.&nbsp; This would have the advantage of an infinite &quot;spell list&quot; with a balanced mechanic to insure that different traditions are all roughly on the same footing.Anyway, if you're interested here is an example of the first approach I was taking.&nbsp; This is probably the most heavily tweaked class though, some are as simple as a spell list with no special mechanics.&nbsp; What do you think?&nbsp; &nbsp; Alchemy&nbsp; &nbsp; Alchemy is the oldest of the non-religious magical traditions.&nbsp; Through the study of the interaction of various substances and the practice of transmutation, the alchemist learns to transform substance, and by extension to transform the soul itself.&nbsp; &nbsp; Learning Alchemy:&nbsp; Alchemists learn their art through careful study, experimentation, and observation.&nbsp; Tutelage as an apprentice under an accomplished alchemist is by far the most common means of learning the art, although some alchemists are self-taught through the acquisition and study of a tome of lore on the subject.&nbsp; Some of the better-known treatises on the art of alchemy are Essence and Substance, Principia du Speculatis en Materia, and Malvoli’s Crucible.&nbsp; The wizard colleges in the Central Kingdoms also offer studies in the alchemical arts, and many wizards are also accomplished alchemists.&nbsp; &nbsp; Features:·&nbsp; &nbsp; Alchemists with the brew potion feat may create potions as if their base cost was lower than the actual base cost for purposes of determining gold piece and xp cost.&nbsp; The amount of discount is dependent on the number of skill ranks the character has in the alchemy skill.&nbsp; &nbsp; Alchemy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brew Potion&nbsp; &nbsp; Skill Ranks&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost&nbsp; &nbsp; 0-3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 90%&nbsp; &nbsp; 4-6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 85%&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 80%&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 75%&nbsp; &nbsp; 13-15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 70%&nbsp; &nbsp; 16-18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 65%&nbsp; &nbsp; 19+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 60%·&nbsp; &nbsp; The casting time for all alchemical spells is 1 action, which consists of activating the special material component described below.·&nbsp; &nbsp; All alchemical spells have a material and somatic component, and no other components, regardless of the spell description.&nbsp; Feats that eliminate spell components can not be applied applied to spells cast from this tradition, nor any other ability that modifies a spell’s required components.·&nbsp; &nbsp; All alchemy spells have a special material component that must be prepared ahead of time with the alchemy skill.&nbsp; These components are not interchangeable between different spells and must be made separately for each spell.&nbsp; This process requires access to alchemical equipment, exotic materials, and an uninterrupted span of time.&nbsp; All alchemy spells also have a somatic component, which is required to activate the material component, but they never have a verbal component.&nbsp; The skill check, time, and cost for constructing the material components required for alchemist spells of each spell level are listed below.&nbsp; A failed DC check indicates that the resulting spell component will not work and the time and gold spent are wasted.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Spell&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Alchemy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Creation&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Creation&nbsp; &nbsp; Level&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DC&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Time&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost*&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 minutes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 sp&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10 minutes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 sp&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15 minutes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 sp&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30 minutes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 hour&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 hours&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4 hours&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6 hours&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8 hours&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12 hours&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 100 gp&nbsp; &nbsp; * The creation cost does not include the cost of any material components or foci the spell might have, which must also be provided during the alchemical spell component preparation process, but are not required during the actual casting of the spell.0-LevelCure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Resistance1st-LevelChange Self, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, Enlarge, Erase, Goodberry, Magic Fang, Magic Stone, Magic Weapon, Nystul’s Magical Aura, Nystul’s Undetectable Aura, Reduce2nd-LevelAlter Self, Barkskin, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Chill Metal, Cure Moderate Wounds, Darkvision, Delay Poison, Endurance, Gentle Repose, Heat Metal, Lesser Restoration, Resist Elements, Shatter, Warp Wood, Wood Shape, 3rd-LevelCure Serious Wounds, Gaseous Form, Greater Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Fang, Haste, Keen Edge, Magical Vestment, Protection from Elements, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Shrink Item, Slow, Water Breathing4th-LevelCure Critical Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Poison, Polymorph Other, Polymorph Self, Restoration, Rusting Grasp, Stoneskin5th-LevelAnimal Growth, Fabricate, Passwall, Seeming, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud6th-LevelFlesh to Stone, Heal, Ironwood, Mass Haste, Stone to Flesh, Tenser’s Transformation, Veil7th-LevelGreater Restoration, Regenerate, Simulacrum, Statue, Transmute Metal to Wood, 8th-LevelClone, Eternal Youth*, Iron Body, Polymorph Any Object, 9th-LevelRaise Dead, Shape Change*new spellEDIT:&nbsp; I almost forgot to mention.&nbsp; The spell list is so small because magi could learn more than one tradition by taking feats.&nbsp; So this alchemist might also have ability as a Byurinese Witch too, for example.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kenjib, post: 874044, member: 530"] You know, I just remembered that I actually started something along these lines a while back and I've got a bunch already done. The problem I had was worrying about whether they were playable or not, so I wanted to start looking around and see if there was a system out there that could incorporate these ideas without creating new rules. One thing I was looking at was taking one of the more open-ended systems like Sovereign Stone, Chaos Magic, or Elements of Magic and tweaking it to narrow the focus of what a particular mage could do based on his tradition. I guess Mage the Ascension would be along these lines too -- as would Riddle of Steel, which looks interesting too. I particularly like Sovereign Stone, because while it is open ended, it still has the concept of spells, research, and hermetic lore, which some of the other systems forego in favor of a more innate magical power. Has anyone tried to modify one of these systems to change the focus to fit their world? It seems like you could just change some of the various "spheres" or "vocabulary" to create a limitation on the kinds of spells to be cast. For example, a Namarundese Serpent Eater would be able to create any spell using the open-ended rules so long as it is somehow grounded in the traits of various snakes, player suggestions being arbitrated by the DM. This would have the advantage of an infinite "spell list" with a balanced mechanic to insure that different traditions are all roughly on the same footing. Anyway, if you're interested here is an example of the first approach I was taking. This is probably the most heavily tweaked class though, some are as simple as a spell list with no special mechanics. What do you think? Alchemy Alchemy is the oldest of the non-religious magical traditions. Through the study of the interaction of various substances and the practice of transmutation, the alchemist learns to transform substance, and by extension to transform the soul itself. Learning Alchemy: Alchemists learn their art through careful study, experimentation, and observation. Tutelage as an apprentice under an accomplished alchemist is by far the most common means of learning the art, although some alchemists are self-taught through the acquisition and study of a tome of lore on the subject. Some of the better-known treatises on the art of alchemy are Essence and Substance, Principia du Speculatis en Materia, and Malvoli’s Crucible. The wizard colleges in the Central Kingdoms also offer studies in the alchemical arts, and many wizards are also accomplished alchemists. Features: · Alchemists with the brew potion feat may create potions as if their base cost was lower than the actual base cost for purposes of determining gold piece and xp cost. The amount of discount is dependent on the number of skill ranks the character has in the alchemy skill. Alchemy Brew Potion Skill Ranks Cost 0-3 90% 4-6 85% 7-9 80% 10-12 75% 13-15 70% 16-18 65% 19+ 60% · The casting time for all alchemical spells is 1 action, which consists of activating the special material component described below. · All alchemical spells have a material and somatic component, and no other components, regardless of the spell description. Feats that eliminate spell components can not be applied applied to spells cast from this tradition, nor any other ability that modifies a spell’s required components. · All alchemy spells have a special material component that must be prepared ahead of time with the alchemy skill. These components are not interchangeable between different spells and must be made separately for each spell. This process requires access to alchemical equipment, exotic materials, and an uninterrupted span of time. All alchemy spells also have a somatic component, which is required to activate the material component, but they never have a verbal component. The skill check, time, and cost for constructing the material components required for alchemist spells of each spell level are listed below. A failed DC check indicates that the resulting spell component will not work and the time and gold spent are wasted. Spell Alchemy Creation Creation Level DC Time Cost* 0 12 5 minutes 1 sp 1 14 10 minutes 2 sp 2 16 15 minutes 5 sp 3 18 30 minutes 1 gp 4 20 1 hour 2 gp 5 22 2 hours 5 gp 6 24 4 hours 10 gp 7 26 6 hours 20 gp 8 28 8 hours 50 gp 9 30 12 hours 100 gp * The creation cost does not include the cost of any material components or foci the spell might have, which must also be provided during the alchemical spell component preparation process, but are not required during the actual casting of the spell. 0-Level Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Resistance 1st-Level Change Self, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, Enlarge, Erase, Goodberry, Magic Fang, Magic Stone, Magic Weapon, Nystul’s Magical Aura, Nystul’s Undetectable Aura, Reduce 2nd-Level Alter Self, Barkskin, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Chill Metal, Cure Moderate Wounds, Darkvision, Delay Poison, Endurance, Gentle Repose, Heat Metal, Lesser Restoration, Resist Elements, Shatter, Warp Wood, Wood Shape, 3rd-Level Cure Serious Wounds, Gaseous Form, Greater Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Fang, Haste, Keen Edge, Magical Vestment, Protection from Elements, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Shrink Item, Slow, Water Breathing 4th-Level Cure Critical Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Poison, Polymorph Other, Polymorph Self, Restoration, Rusting Grasp, Stoneskin 5th-Level Animal Growth, Fabricate, Passwall, Seeming, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud 6th-Level Flesh to Stone, Heal, Ironwood, Mass Haste, Stone to Flesh, Tenser’s Transformation, Veil 7th-Level Greater Restoration, Regenerate, Simulacrum, Statue, Transmute Metal to Wood, 8th-Level Clone, Eternal Youth*, Iron Body, Polymorph Any Object, 9th-Level Raise Dead, Shape Change *new spell EDIT: I almost forgot to mention. The spell list is so small because magi could learn more than one tradition by taking feats. So this alchemist might also have ability as a Byurinese Witch too, for example. [/QUOTE]

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