Best magic system to represent numerous and diverse cultural occult traditions?

[kenjib]

I'm wondering if anyone could give me some suggestions on how to implement various magical traditions without having to write up a dozen or more new classes or PRCs. Ideally there would be one alt.magic system that can capture this kind of thing with minimal effort.

Basically, what I am looking for is a mechanism to create more themed spell casters rather than the general approach usually taken, but with the flexibility to design my own themes.

I also prefer a model of study into occult secrets and lore rather than innate power (so more like wizard, less like sorcerer), but this is probably the easiest adapted part. This helps to build a body of occult lore around each tradition, jealously guarded by it's practitioners.

I suspect that there might not be any easy way, but does anyone have any ideas? Would any of the published products help with this?

Some examples of the occult traditions to show the scope that I am after:

Byurinese Witchcraft
Byurinese witches are greatly feared where they exist among the Northern Horselords, across the foothills of the Ma Sari Peaks, and down through the eastern Central Kingdoms for the terrible curses they can inflict upon their unfortunate victims. Rarely, someone will seek out one of the witches in a moment of dire need. The price is always terrible. A preferred currency of the witches is the supplicant’s firstborn daughter, which they raise as their own, teaching them in the ancient ways of witchcraft. Woe to the person who refuses to hand over a promised daughter and in so doing invokes the deadly wrath of a witch. Byurinese witches are also known to deceive men into intimacy during the full moon, often disguised as current or former lovers. If the resulting child is a daughter, it is raised as a witch. If it is a son, it is sacrificed and the child’s blood is used to fuel the witch’s dark magic.
Learning Byurinese Witchcraft: Byurinese Witches are trained in the art from birth, and must be raised as a child by another witch. Exceptions to this rule are extremely rare and occur only under very special and unique circumstances.

Feyalla’i
From the desert they come: The mysterious and legendary Feyalli. Slipping quietly into the spaces between perception, they weave their magic. Feared assassins and near imperceptible spies, the Feyalli appear suddenly out of thin air, strike with deadly precision, and quickly melt into the sands from whence they came. Feyalla’i often multiclass as rogues.
Learning Feyalla’i: The Feyalli do not share their secrets with outsiders. One must be an honored and trusted member of a wandering feyalli band before becoming initiated into the ranks of their occult order. Most of the Feyalli were born and raised in the desert. The Feyalli have an instinctive distrust of outsiders, so only a very small number of foreigners throughout history have earned their trust and respect to a high enough degree to be given their ancient secrets.

Shaping
The Tsa Shapers are a priesthood shrouded in legend and mystery. Situated high in the Ma Sari peaks, their temples are centers of the most philosophically advanced spiritual movement in Haalyr. Quietly reflecting on the nature of being and non-being, the priests of Tsa for the most part live quiet and contemplative lives above the clouds in the mountain peaks at the edge of the world. By embracing and exploiting the fundamental ambiguities of the nature of reality, the shapers have the powerful ability to bend reality around them in many awe-inspiring ways.
Learning Shaping: Shapers are trained at Tsa temples high in the Ma Sari peaks through a regiment of meditation, self-reflection, discipline, and the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment. Only the most worthy of candidates are accepted into training by the shapers. Among other criteria, candidates must be humble, clever, lacking in ambition, and eager to learn.

Namarundese Serpent Eaters
Members of an ancient and forbidden serpent cult that has been driven nearly to extinction, the serpent eaters learn to wield great power over snakes. In addition to commanding snakes to do their bidding, an accomplished snake eater can even take on aspects of the snake, invoking these serpentine qualities to achieve powerful effect.
Learning the Art of the Serpent Eater: Namarundese Serpent Eaters undergo a dangerous initiation ritual in which they are bitten by the deadly blue cobra. The candidate is given no aid and must overcome the venom (Injury DC 18, 1d6 con initial, 2d6 con secondary) without any magical assistance. Should they survive the poison, the snake that bit them is killed and eaten by the initiate, who may afterward begin training.

 

[Noldor Elf]

Basically, what I am looking for is a mechanism to create more themed spell casters rather than the general approach usually taken, but with the flexibility to design my own themes.

Well, in our homebrew (world & system), we take the approach, that casting the spell is a some type of ritual in all cases. That way we the action required to cast a spell can be different in each culturally, while all the spells necessarily doesn't. Of course this won't work in fast action, combat heavy game because to really make the difference in game this method require players to describe the actions they characters take to cast a spell.

Example (Combat buffing spell (in D20 terms, Divine Favor):
- Imperial Battle Mage: draws symbols to the body of the target, using special paint. Starts from forehead, going down towards the palm of the weapon hand. Spell is cast, when painting is done.
- Northen Shaman: Use a bear's skull as focus. Mimicing movements of bear and chanting, conjures the blessing of the bear upon the target.
In both cases, the ingame effect would be exactly the same

 

[s/LaSH]

It's not d20 - it's not particularly compatible - and it's not playable, but the magic system from my Twilight system is intended for flexibility. If you want to look at it, scroll down to the bit labelled 'Chapter 3: Skills' and look over the Magic section halfway through - it summarises the skills and sub-skills provided by the system. Sorry, the html is awful, I made it straight from a Word document. Blame Microsoft.

If it looks interesting, let me know and I might hasten the release of the full rules so you can really see how it works.

Magic is mechanically identical no matter the method used to attain it, but there's nothing to say you couldn't apply special limitations to it depending on flavour. At the very least it provides one form of unified magic mechanic.

 

[Mark]

I think the simplest way to create cultural flavor in regard to magic is to choose either the prepared or spontaneous casting types and assign them to those cultures and then adjust the available spell lists for those cultures. Perhaps you can even combine some spells, or limit their effectiveness. Further, it goes a long way when trying to present things as cultural to rename and adjust the way in which things are performed (change durations, material components, etc.)

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Pinnacle's Weird Wars has some different magic systems for different cultures and classes.

Chaplains just pray (they don't even need to holy symbol) to invoke miracles (spells). The chaplain makes a Prayer Check to cast the spell successfully.

Adepts cast spells through Rune Magic, which is Germanic in origin. To cast a spell, the adept must know and use the runes needed.

Both of these "systems" are detailed in the main book, Blood on the Rhine.

Unfortunately, I don't think they've developed any other magical cultures yet. Perhaps a "Japanese" Shinto-based magic system would derive power from dead ancestors--as you increase in levels, you make contact with more powerful ancestor spirits.

 

[Cedric]

The magic system from White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension would be best for this...problem is that while it's the best, it's also the hardest to understand.

But, all of the elements are there to create any kind of magic, with any kind of flavor that you want.

Cedric

 

[kibbitz]

Heard Runequest was good, with Runic/Divine Magic, Sorcerous and Spiritual, all with different primary stats, spell lists and methods of casting. You might want to look into that.

 

[kenjib]

Well, in our homebrew (world & system), we take the approach, that casting the spell is a some type of ritual in all cases. That way we the action required to cast a spell can be different in each culturally, while all the spells necessarily doesn't. Of course this won't work in fast action, combat heavy game because to really make the difference in game this method require players to describe the actions they characters take to cast a spell.

Example (Combat buffing spell (in D20 terms, Divine Favor):
- Imperial Battle Mage: draws symbols to the body of the target, using special paint. Starts from forehead, going down towards the palm of the weapon hand. Spell is cast, when painting is done.
- Northen Shaman: Use a bear's skull as focus. Mimicing movements of bear and chanting, conjures the blessing of the bear upon the target.
In both cases, the ingame effect would be exactly the same

I think the simplest way to create cultural flavor in regard to magic is to choose either the prepared or spontaneous casting types and assign them to those cultures and then adjust the available spell lists for those cultures. Perhaps you can even combine some spells, or limit their effectiveness. Further, it goes a long way when trying to present things as cultural to rename and adjust the way in which things are performed (change durations, material components, etc.)

I think these two ideas would go really well together. You create spell lists, and add differences to how they cast spells and flavor text. The problems I have about this are:

1. I might have to create new spells to cover some of the ideas.

2. It would be hard to know if there is any kind of balance between the different classes. One class might get fireball, dispel magic, and haste, while another gets gust of wind and secret page.

3. Creating a dozen or more spell lists could be a lot of work, but I suppose that I could just do it on the fly when I need to.

None of these are probably a big deal though. What do you think?

 

[kenjib]

It's not d20 - it's not particularly compatible - and it's not playable, but the magic system from my Twilight system is intended for flexibility. If you want to look at it, scroll down to the bit labelled 'Chapter 3: Skills' and look over the Magic section halfway through - it summarises the skills and sub-skills provided by the system. Sorry, the html is awful, I made it straight from a Word document. Blame Microsoft.

If it looks interesting, let me know and I might hasten the release of the full rules so you can really see how it works.

Magic is mechanically identical no matter the method used to attain it, but there's nothing to say you couldn't apply special limitations to it depending on flavour. At the very least it provides one form of unified magic mechanic.

How do the skills relate to the power levels of the spells? Do you need to roll and get a certain number of successes for a given spell effect (otherwise fail casting), or do your ranks in a magic skill directly effect how powerful a spell you can cast (i.e. you need 3+ ranks to shrink something by up to 50%, 5+ ranks to shrink something by 75%, etc.)

I like the idea of different spheres and it looks like it would be easy to plug in a new sphere for each occult tradition.

 

[kenjib]

The magic system from White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension would be best for this...problem is that while it's the best, it's also the hardest to understand.

But, all of the elements are there to create any kind of magic, with any kind of flavor that you want.

Cedric

How well does this game support the people other than the Mages? Would it work well in a campaign where magic is not the central focus? Would it work for a world like Robert E. Howard's Hyboria?