Best magic system to represent numerous and diverse cultural occult traditions?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I would also recommend reading up on the design diaries for Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed he has a quite a few good ideas for making the feel of spell casting different for different people without coming up with a whole new system of magic.

FR has a feat called primitive magic in Races of Faerun that does a great job exoticizing familiar classes.

I also second prior recommendations to check out Glorantha/Runequest and Swashbuckling Aracana.

I, however, hated Mage the Ascension in how it did this. All the differences between casters were explicitly purely cosmetic, which meant that in a paradigm in which belief was what made magic belief had no effect on magic except to insure it was there.

Mind you, Mage was a very easy system, I just would have been happy to trade out some complexity for some diversity.

 

[blackshirt5]

I like the idea of just adding flavor through descriptions. For example, all dwarven casters IMC use ancestor magic and runic magic, so they would either be drawing the runes in the air with their fingers, or invoking the names of their ancestors. All elves(as well as a notable human wizard and his apprentice) invoke shamanistic magic, calling on the spirits that exist all around the world. Elven magic is similar to how it's shown in Record of Lodoss War, with a mixture of Slayn and Deedlit.

 

[WayneLigon]

Byurinese Witchcraft... Feyalla’i... Shaping... Namarundese Serpent Eaters

I don't see a single thing in those descriptions that means you should have a completely different magic system. Most of the distinctions you seem to be going for are flavor. The simplest way to simulate all those traditions would be with different spell lists for each major tradition. Spells they specialize in (such as shaping magics for the Tsa, or serpent-flavored magics such as Poison for the Namarudese) are lower level than normal, while they are denied other spells. (The Feyalla'i get Invisibility as a first level spell but they never get flashy boom-boom magics like Fireball, for example.) Mix Arcane and Divine lists. Use a few unique spells from other products. Each caster has a feat called 'Feyalla'i Magic' (or whatever), which means they get these special magics but can never learn others. And other cultures cannot learn their magics. Have a small pool of 'Universal Spells'.

Some strange Feats from some of the third party books should round out their special magics enough to give them flavor.

 

[kenjib]

I would also recommend reading up on the design diaries for Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed he has a quite a few good ideas for making the feel of spell casting different for different people without coming up with a whole new system of magic.

FR has a feat called primitive magic in Races of Faerun that does a great job exoticizing familiar classes.

I also second prior recommendations to check out Glorantha/Runequest and Swashbuckling Aracana.

I, however, hated Mage the Ascension in how it did this. All the differences between casters were explicitly purely cosmetic, which meant that in a paradigm in which belief was what made magic belief had no effect on magic except to insure it was there.

Mind you, Mage was a very easy system, I just would have been happy to trade out some complexity for some diversity.

Yeah, I've been following up on Monte's diaries. There are lots of d20 magic types out there in various supplements, which would save me lots of time, but I wonder how well they would all integrate together. Probably just as well as I could do.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try and take a look at those.

 

[kenjib]

Don't know if this is quite what you are looking for, but I completely modified the arcane spellcasting classes for my game. There are no wizards, instead I made up a number of traditions of magic, each of them more or less associated with a certain culture in my world. Each has different abilities, spell lists, strengths, and weaknesses. Here's a brief overview (excised from my magical theory document):

*examples snipped*

If anybody is interested in these, I can post more details.

Hi Gothmog. That sounds like the exact same kind of thing that I've been going for, and I like your ideas. Would it be possible to post one of your classes so I can see how you did it?

 

[kenjib]

Re: Re: Best magic system to represent numerous and diverse cultural occult tradition

I don't see a single thing in those descriptions that means you should have a completely different magic system. Most of the distinctions you seem to be going for are flavor. The simplest way to simulate all those traditions would be with different spell lists for each major tradition. Spells they specialize in (such as shaping magics for the Tsa, or serpent-flavored magics such as Poison for the Namarudese) are lower level than normal, while they are denied other spells. (The Feyalla'i get Invisibility as a first level spell but they never get flashy boom-boom magics like Fireball, for example.) Mix Arcane and Divine lists. Use a few unique spells from other products. Each caster has a feat called 'Feyalla'i Magic' (or whatever), which means they get these special magics but can never learn others. And other cultures cannot learn their magics. Have a small pool of 'Universal Spells'.

Some strange Feats from some of the third party books should round out their special magics enough to give them flavor.

Great point and I agree that usually a spell list is enough differentiation. Do you think there is no occasional need for mechanics governing how spells are cast? What do you think of my alchemist idea? I have a hard time imagining an alchemist perform magic without creating concoctions. Casting spells with the normal mechanics but with different flavor text doesn't seem to fit quite right.

 

[Cedric]

How well does this game support the people other than the Mages? Would it work well in a campaign where magic is not the central focus? Would it work for a world like Robert E. Howard's Hyboria?

Taking the questions in reverse order...

3, I have no idea, not familiar with Hyboria.

2. It can, it's very flexible.

1. In this case, you'd be best off yanking the magic system out of mage and using a different game system for everything else.

On a side note, you may also want to look at Ars Magica.

I list Mage and Ars Magica because they are the most flexible magic systems available...course, Mage was based on Ars Magica.

Cedric

 

[333 Dave]

Two words: Occult Lore
Seriously, I cannot understand why this thread has gone on so long without Occult Lore being mentioned! You even said the words "occult" and "lore" several times in your initial thread!
Its a great book, hardcover, by Atlas Games and it contains a bunch of magic variety. Here's the entry for it in the Enworld database. I seriously suggest checking this out before learning a non-d20 magic system then converting it over after much toiling.

 

[kibbitz]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've looked around a bit for info and it seems that everyone tends to cast some spells in the Runequest system. Do you think it could be adapted to a more low magic setting where spell casters are rare?

Heh, that's why I said Heard , no real experience with the system, been looking for a copy in nearby shops, never found one. I don't see why you can't fix it up to fit low magic settings though, at least from what I've heard aboutt it.