D&D 4E Best of 3PP 4E products

[Mercurius]

It has now been over two and a half years since 4E came out and when you compare the 3PP market to its 3E equivalent in late 2002/early 2003, it feels like a vast and empty universe. But there is some activity, albeit probably less than 5% of what was being churned out under the OGL (for better or worse!). What are your favorite 3PP products made specifically for 4E? Any hidden gems out there?

The inspiration for this thread is that I ended up buying a copy of Amethyst: Foundations. Normally I'm turned off by sexy goth elf covers (and think this was an unfortunate choice) but this is a terrific product - I am very impressed. It made me hopeful that there might be some life out there in the vast and empty GSL universe!

What are your favorite 3PP 4E products?

 

[TerraDave]

Vast and empty indeed.

And 4E really could use some different takes. WotC is very middle of the road. Dark sun and gamma world are nice, but I think there is huge scope for others to really stretch the system.

One thing I don't understand is how much does the GSL restrict what people can do compared to the OGL?

 

[Mercurius]

I can't answer that, although I think it has something to do with WotC being able to change the GSL at a moment's notice and thus being able to screw the little guy if he's getting too big. In other words, if you are a 3PP and come out with a GSL product, and then WotC changes the GSL, I don't think you can continue printing that same product - you have to change it to fit the current GSL.

As far as rules use is concerned, I think it is rather similar. But if that is the case you'd think we'd see a bit more 3PP action. We haven't seen many Dawnforges or Midnights, except for Amethyst afaik.

 

[RangerWickett]

The character rules are complicated, and most everyone used the Character Builder, which could not accept third-party material. That made it hard to produce 4e player material, since anything you create, players would have to write in by hand.

 

[Badwe]

although the GSL is not quite as forgiving as OGL, i suspect the real culprit is that so much of 4e is "plugged in" to things like the compendium and the CB, to which 3PP have no way to integrate with. Assuming there even WAS some way to integrate, it would probably skyrocket the cost of producing the book and expose them to the risk of piracy, for which they have even less recourse and ability to quash than wotc.

that being said, i've bought a good number of goodman game's 4e dungeon crawl classics. They are.... very different from the way WotC does adventures, both published and in dragon. for the most part it's refreshing, but some of the early stuff made such mistakes as sending a single level 7 against a party of level 1s. This was right by XP but there's no way they could hit that thing.

I think aside from adventures, I would most likely want some sort of creature compendium, but i don't even like to use the monster manuals for more than the nature/knowledge checks and pictures, or possibly injecting one additional type of monster into a fight. if i have to flip we're in trouble. For that reason, a creature compendium that doesn't plug in to the compendium where i can copy+paste stat blocks into word documents isn't useful to me.

 

[Jack99]

In general, most of the OBE stuff is very good, some of the Critter Caches are very good as well, most notably the Daemons one. The Forgotten Portal (DCC58) is nice as well. When mentioning adventures, WotBS should not be forgotten either. The first adventures were awesome - I haven't gotten around reading any of the newer ones.

 

[Badwe]

I actually think a more effective 3rd party monster publication would be a book with an accompanying box of cards with monster stats, that way i can easily build encounters on the fly without having to resort to photocopying or flipping pages, but that might be a tough thing to budget with 3rd parties.

 

[Zaukrie]

I like the critter caches a lot. Miss 'em.

 

[Nyronus]

As someone who actually works on 4E 3PP I can say that while the GSL is a pain in the ass sometimes, but its not that bad. Its a little cumbersome when it comes to monsters and references revolving around monsters, since you can only reference the inferior MM1 and 2, and you can only reference a fragment of 2 at that.

For classes the main issue is having to reinvent the wheel. For instance, if you want a class whose concept compliments the ki-focus mechanics, you have to find some sort of alternate means since the ki-foci are not SRD compliant.

I honestly think the main issue killing 3pp sales is probably both a lack of caring at the customer level, and the integrated nature of the game. For most people having to hand-craft a character is unthinkable (having only access to a Mac and the Compendium for three years I find this to be kind of laughable). The other issue is that for most people, 4e with its emphasis on a empty canvas world for a DM to use and personal creativity, has just about everything they need for a DnD game. Why should they pay for material when they can come up with workable stuff on their own? Add on the perception that 4e is either not making money or a dangerous investment and the fact that the vast majority of products originally released were of poor quality and we just see a dearth of worthwhile stuff.

Its a shame really.

 

[Dias Ex Machina]

The inspiration for this thread is that I ended up buying a copy of Amethyst: Foundations. Normally I'm turned off by sexy goth elf covers (and think this was an unfortunate choice) but this is a terrific product - I am very impressed. It made me hopeful that there might be some life out there in the vast and empty GSL universe!

Okay, let me comment on that...

Our original cover was...demure. Reserved.

As it began to develop, I wanted to place the demon-fae on the back and put the military general on the front. I was advised by certain...parties...to keep the demon-fae on the cover, as it would draw attention. I understood the risks involved and possible blowback that could occur. These things happen.

Also, I would agree with what Nyronus and Badwe were commenting on. I just did an interview with a blogger where I was asked about the issues with the GSL. I explained they were hurdles--something we jump over, not collide into. If we are physically fit and prepared for the race, they barely even slow us down.

I explained this at length for an article I wrote for Living Dice as well.

4th Edition and the Giant Robot–The Modern Dilemma | LivingDice.com