Best resources for non combat encounters/skill challenges?

[Ruxpin_exe]

Yeah, just wondering where you've found success when looking for ideas as a DM.
Been running a 4e campaign for a few weeks now and find that most of the time spent playing is either just straight up combat or roleplaying before getting towards combat.. which is great and all but looking for clever ideas in how to add more dynamics to the game.

Thanks.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Me personally... I tend to grab a bunch of modules whose themes or locations are all generally about the same, I write down in bullet form the individual plot points of each scene in each module, then try and see where some of them might overlap. That way I have several varying plot ideas and threads to choose from as part of creating the storyline for the players. Depending on how they reach those parts of the story, I might primarily use one thread from one module, but throw in sideplots or ideas from another mdoule that overlaps it, so there are options for both the group and myself. It's kind of a adaptive variant on Dave Chalker's 5x5 method of campaign design.

 

[Ruxpin_exe]

Ah thats great ideas to start.. I'd never seen that 5x5 thing till you mentioned it.
Specifically skill challenges? Do you get most inspiration from modules?

 

[Quickleaf]

Yeah, just wondering where you've found success when looking for ideas as a DM.
Been running a 4e campaign for a few weeks now and find that most of the time spent playing is either just straight up combat or roleplaying before getting towards combat.. which is great and all but looking for clever ideas in how to add more dynamics to the game.

Thanks.

What sort of dynamics do you want to add?

You could do worse than checking out Critical Hits page devoted to skill challenges. Also, check out DMG2's skill challenge chapter.

My other suggestion would be to get at least a bit familiar with other game systems.

When you compare 4e Skill Challenges to a system like Spycraft, what you'll see is that:
(a) Spycraft organizes challenges into very specific rule sub-sets
(b) Spycraft presents A LOT more interesting choices for each rules sub-set

When you compare 4e Skill Challenges to a system like Gumshoe, you'll see that:
(a) Gumshoe is built around a specific challenge type - the mystery investigation
(b) Gumshoe argues that the fun in solving a mystery is not rolling dice but in the players making deductions

When you compare 4e Skill Challenges to a system like Dungeon World, you'll see that:
(a) Dungeon World has a robust improvisation rules set
(b) Dungeon World makes failure interesting

A lot can be done with 4e Skill Challenges....but you've got to crack the system first and realize that the RAW rules are only a bare minimum starting point.

 

[pemerton]

A lot of 4e modules have poorly-conceived skill challenges - don't get sucked into them too deeply!

A lot of modules from all eras - including some 4e ones - have bits of play which are sketched out as free roleplaying (eg travel, negotiation) but that, within the 4e framework, can work better as skill challenges.

I just posted a short account of a skill challenge I ran in my 4e game here. The key to a skill challenge, in my view, is (i) letting the players decide how their PCs tackle the situation, and then agreeing with them on what skill exactly is being tested by that engagement, and (ii) narrating outcomes in a way that keeps things moving, so the players have an incentive to declare more actions (and hence make more skill checks) within the context of the fiction (and not just because you tell them that they have to). Also, be flexible in allowing rituals, powers etc to contribute (normally by granting an aid-another style +2 bonus) - the DMG2 has some advice on this, but it's a bit underdeveloped.

Here's a long description of what I still think is the best social skill challenge I've run.

 

[pemerton]

Another couple of comments:

When running a skill challenge, the fiction has to come first. In the social challenge I linked to above, a lot of the pressure in the situation came from a hostile NPC pressuring the fighter PC, who has the weakest social skills in the party. At one point another player made a Bluff check to create an excuse for his PC and the fighter to leave the table. That then meant that the hostile NPC, who was still sitting at the table, couldn't pressure the fighter, which changed the dynamics of the situation in the players' favour, at least temporarily.

Also, there is no point running a skill challenge if you already know what is going to happen. You have to be prepared to let the situation unfold in accordance with the players' declared actions and the results of their checks. In a social situation, this can lead to unexpected outcomes: for instance, a player who has just made a Diplomacy check says "I want to make another Diplomacy check". So you reply, "OK, what else are you saying?" So then the player has to have his/her PC actually say something new in order to create the fictional context for the check to be made - and you never know what that is going to be! Maybe they make an offer, and then on a successful roll the NPC accepts it: now the player is bound by a promise that none of you was anticipating 10 minutes earlier.

One example of this from my game was when the PCs were raiding a hobgoblin outpost: the hobgoblins retreated to regroup, and the PCs ducked into a small room to take a short breather. In the room they found a couple of duergar slave traders taking shelter from the melee. The PCs didn't want to start a fight on another front, so they started talking. And as the situation resolved - in accordance with the principle I just described, that to make checks the players actually have to have their PCs do or say stuff - they ended up reaching a deal with the duergar to redeem the slaves they had bought from the hobgoblins for an agreed price at an agreed location in a month's time. None of us was expecting that outcome when the negotiations started. (And the module writers certainly hadn't thought of it!)

 

[Manbearcat]

Yeah, just wondering where you've found success when looking for ideas as a DM.
Been running a 4e campaign for a few weeks now and find that most of the time spent playing is either just straight up combat or roleplaying before getting towards combat.. which is great and all but looking for clever ideas in how to add more dynamics to the game.

Thanks.

[MENTION=7006]DEFCON 1[/MENTION], @Quickleaf and @pemerton give great advice. I'll be short.

1) Get the DMG2 and heed all of the great advice therein.

2) Take a look at this post with Dungeon World's advice on techniques and GMing principles for dynamic conflict resolution.

3) Heed Vincent Baker's advice in Dogs in the Vineyard for techniques and GMing principlces in conflict resolution:

a) Always drive play towards conflict.
b) Escalate, escalate, escalate.
c) Roll the dice or say yes.
d) Establish the stakes. Make them transparent to the players.
e) Play whatever it is that is interposing itself between the PCs and the successful realization of their goal. This might be a Duke, it might be a conspiracy, it might be treacherous badlands, it may be a full whiteout, it may be entropy itself. Play all of these things and play them to the hilt.

4) Personally, I like to do a few things for metagame props.

- Place a countdown dice on the table for Success, for Failures, and for Advantages. Whenever these tick down, tick the dice down with them. This will help pacing. As a GM, you're trying to move things roughly through the dramatic rising and falling of Freytag's Dramatic Structure. You need a conflict to be introduced. You need the conflict to rise, to fall and to end in a denouement that thematically captures the ultimate resolution of the stakes established at the outset of the conflict.

- I use flash cards and I write a few pithy phrases for PCs and myself to riff off of. As play evolves, I may add and remove them. Phrases could be "Blinding Whiteout", "Dizzying Switchbacks", "Pompous Bureaucrat", "Children At Play", "Gathering Storm", "Bustling Marketplace", "Demoralized City", etc.

5) Take advantage of techniques (such as "Fail Forward") that creates dramatic complications which fill the PCs lives with adventure and adversity. A failure doesn't need to be a linear, binary interpretation of task resolution. It needs to pay heed to the player's intent. They should be telegraphing precisely what they are trying to do with respect to the zoomed-out view of the conflict at large. They aren't "chatting up the cute barmaid" for the sake of chatting her up. They're trying to get her to focus her attention on them so the PCs can successfully infiltrate the cellar. The successful infiltration of the cellar is what is of import. So a failure can mean that she is charmed by the overtures of the PC, so long as the successful infiltration of the cellar is complicated. Perhaps a drunken patron, annoyed at her lack of attention of getting her another brew, makes a scene near the cellar as they attempt to get the drink themselves!

6) Practice, practice, practice! The point is creating dynamic scenes where something is at stake. You aren't just exploring a scene. You're driving play, every moment, towards exciting, relevant conflict for the PCs to resolve, up or down. It takes practiced, refined technique and is different than standard exploratory play inherent .

If you'd like, I can run you through an example of a Social Skill Challenge and an Exploration Skill Challenge. If you want to build a PC of whatever level you guys are playing, we can settle on 2 conflicts and run them with you as the PC and me as the GM playing the opposition. That might help you get a better feel.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Specifically skill challenges? Do you get most inspiration from modules?

I usually get my major plots and inspiration from modules or the connective tissue I create between the modules. I also do not use Skill Challenges as they've been set up in the DMG2, I tend to just use narration and the actions of the players to drive scenes. More improvised give-and-take, and we'll only roll dice when it's appropriate to get the possibility of a change in action/attitude.

So for social interactions... all NPCs have attitudes and needs. How they feel about things, and what they want. And that drives their interaction with the PCs-- how does the group help the NPC get what he or she wants? Oftentimes, that never even needs to involve the dice, if the interactions are rather obvious and both sides come to mutually beneficial agreements. It's only if the PCs need to drastically change an attitude or make an NPC forsake their needs/desires that the roll of the dice might come into play (on top of how the players actually roleplay the situation.)

For other stuff... chases, climbing a mountain or whatnot... it comes down to whether I feel like it needs to be a "set piece", or just an obstacle to overcome on the way to the true action of the story. If its just an obstacle... a couple skill checks will cover it-- and rather than worry about or count "successes" and "failures" like in a true Skill Challenge, things will go typically unless there's an obvious massive success or massive failure on the part of those rolls. And then I'll just make crap up to illustrate the massive success or failure.

But if it's a "set piece" encounter... those tend to already be written into the modules which I am adapting-- a mining cart chase, a runaway white water rafting journey etc.-- and I'll follow some of the instructions that the module gives. But again... I don't focus or worry about counting the successes and failures because that makes the encounter feel a little too rote to me and my players. The narrative no longer has focus, the dice rolls do-- having to continually add in dice rolls in order to reach a certain number of successes or three failures... even if the narrative doesn't really feel like it needs them. I instead just ask for the checks if it feels like the story needs them and narrate what feels right based on what the dice show. But a lot of that just comes down to experience.