Best Spell to Maximize

[Jeremy]

I know I am, Caliban is, and kreynolds is. From hong's general posts I'd guess he is too, though I don't know for sure.

And as it doesn't make one character too powerful and isn't a feat everyone of my spellcasters chooses, and doesn't result on my hard plans being ended in a single spell or round, unbalanced seems to be a poor choice of word for it.

Multiple empowers are not unbalanced. Though they may be distasteful to you, they are very well playtested now and are just another part of Core 3e. Give them a shot. You may find them useful in some situations (as it should be, you only get so many feats), but you may also find that out of your wizard or clerics 20-30 spells prepared that day, only one of them is empowered and none of them are multi-empowered.

 

[hong]

I know I am, Caliban is, and kreynolds is. From hong's general posts I'd guess he is too, though I don't know for sure.

My most recent involvement in D&D was as a player in Geoff Watson's RttToEE campaign. The last time I DMed would have been about this time last year, I think. So I've been on both sides of the screen.

 

[S'mon]

I know I am, Caliban is, and kreynolds is. From hong's general posts I'd guess he is too, though I don't know for sure.

Would it be rude to ask your ages and nationalities? I know you all think I'm being a dick/blind as a bat, but I was wondering if perhaps it's because I'm from a different D&Ding tradition than the rest of you. Hong told me to go back to 2e - well, I hated 2e, but I grew up on 1e and 1980s White Dwarf, which used to be the UK's premier RPG mag (especially for AD&D) up until ca 1991 when it became a mag for the Warhammer games lines. I grew up with the Gygaxian approach to GMing and a strong ethos from WD of restrictively interpreting PC powers as the best way to run what's now called a 'balanced' game. I was thinking though that to players/GMs weaned on, say, 1990s CRPGs that might be an alien concept.

Are you guys all 45 year old grognards, 16 year old Diablerists, or both?

 

[Caliban]

Would it be rude to ask your ages and nationalities?

I'm 30, and I grew up in Texas and Arizona (USA).

I know you all think I'm being a dick/blind as a bat,

So far, that pretty much sums it up.

but I was wondering if perhaps it's because I'm from a different D&Ding tradition than the rest of you. Hong told me to go back to 2e - well, I hated 2e, but I grew up on 1e and 1980s White Dwarf, which used to be the UK's premier RPG mag (especially for AD&D) up until ca 1991 when it became a mag for the Warhammer games lines.

I started playing in 1e, switched to 2e, then quit after about a year because I wasn't having fun any more. 3e brought me back into the fold.

I grew up with the Gygaxian approach to GMing and a strong ethos from WD of restrictively interpreting PC powers as the best way to run what's now called a 'balanced' game. I was thinking though that to players/GMs weaned on, say, 1990s CRPGs that might be an alien concept.

I'm not scared to have powerful PC's in my games. Sometimes it's fun for the player to have their PC actually be effective and not to be continually beaten down and dominated by their DM and his NPC's.

(Besides, now matter how powerful the PC's think they are, I can take them down with a crack kobold commando squad led by a 1/2 dragon kobold. Kobolds are respected and feared in my games.)

Are you guys all 45 year old grognards, 16 year old Diablerists, or both?

I'm an individual.

 

[S'mon]

I'm not scared to have powerful PC's in my games. Sometimes it's fun for the player to have their PC actually be effective and not to be continually beaten down and dominated by their DM and his NPC's.

I ran a lot of deity-level play in 1e/2e, with PCs ranging up to Lesser Power level - this campaign was the basis for Upper Krust's Immortals' Handbook, if he ever gets it finished...
My players tend to consider me 'tough but fair' - over about 10 years of play, about 5-6 hours/week on average, 4 PCs made it to demigod level. 2 subsequently died, 1's player left the game, 1 - U_K's Thrin - made it to Lesser God and is still around. I have a lot of experience with powerful PCs, at least in prior editions, and keeping them in check required a fairly strong hand. After a couple of years' GMing 3e I can see that it's set up to make GM control easier at least up to 20th level, at least as long as one sticks to the core rulebooks and doesn't automatically allow in every new player's option supplement or creative rules interpretation.

 

[Caliban]

I ran a lot of deity-level play in 1e/2e, with PCs ranging up to Lesser Power level - this campaign was the basis for Upper Krust's Immortals' Handbook, if he ever gets it finished...
My players tend to consider me 'tough but fair' - over about 10 years of play, about 5-6 hours/week on average, 4 PCs made it to demigod level. 2 subsequently died, 1's player left the game, 1 - U_K's Thrin - made it to Lesser God and is still around. I have a lot of experience with powerful PCs, at least in prior editions, and keeping them in check required a fairly strong hand. After a couple of years' GMing 3e I can see that it's set up to make GM control easier at least up to 20th level, at least as long as one sticks to the core rulebooks and doesn't automatically allow in every new player's option supplement or creative rules interpretation.

That's not the attitude you have displayed here. Introducing your self with a round of Sage bashing doesn't earn you any brownie points, or any respect.

Sometime I disagree with Sage (sometimes very strongly), but I never bash him. He is one of the original 3e game designers, and he's a pretty bright guy. I usually don't disagree with him unless I feel I have a pretty good reason. So far your reasons have amounted to "The Sage is a munchkin and anyone who disagree's with me must be a munckin" too. You haven't appeared to be interested in actually listening to opposing viewpoints, and keep quoting rules that don't really support your position when they are examined closely. (And then say we are the ones who don't care what's in the PHB, when we are quoting rules from that same book.)

Having DM'd or played deity-level characters in prior editions doesn't impress me. I respect U_K because he is a nice guy and expresses himself with intelligence and courtesy, not because his character's level happens to be in the triple digits.

DM'ing characters of any level requires a "fairly strong hand" but that shouldn't translate into "creatively interpreting" standard feats so that they are less effective.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Maximize

There's no point I can think of in the (non-stackable) Maximize feat existing, if you can get a better result from stacking Empower.

Sure there is. Ever seen a 16th level Maxmized Empowered Empowered Empowered Energy Substituted (Sonic) Delayed Blast Fireball strike the hull of a Warship? Nobody can bail water that fast.

 

[kreynolds]

Would it be rude to ask your ages and nationalities?

I'm under 30 and a born and bred pure-blooded Texan.

I know you all think I'm being a dick/blind as a bat, but I was wondering if perhaps it's because I'm from a different D&Ding tradition than the rest of you.

Apparently.

I hated 2e

What a coincidence.

I grew up on 1e and 1980s White Dwarf

I grew up on meat and potatoes.

 

[Jeremy]

<insert truthful answer here>

<insert wise ass comment here>

<insert minor admonition here>

<insert tactful apology and just kidding clause here>

<insert witty signature here>

 

[kreynolds]

<insert truthful answer here>

<insert wise ass comment here>

<insert minor admonition here>

<insert tactful apology and just kidding clause here>

<insert witty signature here>

LMAO