D&D 5E Best way to deal with greedy players and magic items in a fun game.

[Lanefan]

Then you end up with a Dump Truck of Holding full of magic items that never get used.

So?

Sell them. Or find-make-create uses for them. Or keep them as trophies over your castle* fireplace.

* - what? You don't have a castle? Maybe trade some unused magic items for one...

The DM doesn't give the players what they want, they give them what they need. So, if the DM wants to discourage narrow builds and optimisation, such characters will find the dungeons devoid of items they can use, whereas the character with the sub-optimal build finds an ideally suited powerful item.

IMO ideally the DM neutrally places the items (or decides on the module with items already embedded) before even knowing which PCs will be in the adventure.

 

[ECMO3]

Then you end up with a Dump Truck of Holding full of magic items that never get used.

No you don't. You end upm with your 8th level strength-based fighter using a magic war pick or magic dagger because it is the magic weapon you found.

 

[tetrasodium]

No you don't. You end upm with your 8th level strength-based fighter using a magic war pick or magic dagger because it is the magic item you found.

Not quite, that's where crafting comes into play. In my current game I have five players in it.

• Two of them have their needs met but has a bunch of things they want to get eventually (not at all level appropriate items at their level). Lets call then Alice & Bob
• One of them moved from a greataxe to a maul to a bastard sword & has some armor they are happy with. Lets call hm Chuck
• One of them has EXACTLY what he wanted. Lets call him Dave
• The last one is salty because he's turned his nose up at phenominal gear that went to the cleric because none of them were what could be described as "an official Red Ryder, carbine-action; two hundred shot range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time!” Lets call him Eddy.

Alice Bob & Chuck are fine happy & well equipped level 6 PCs & one of them did some spellcraft to learn some custom rare spells that made them happy. Eddy likes to say "my character doesn't want to get involved" & "I don't think my character wants to learn any crafting skills[because he would rather have the murderhobo skills the PC has]." Dave is really the only one with crafting skills & can only craft so much so started with meeting his needs that could be filled with his crafting skill.

Both the me GM & Dave have lamented that none of the other players have any crafting skills & seem unwilling to pick any up. If you want something other than what you find, craft it. If you can't craft it then get another player to do it for you or try to find someone you can commission your "official Red Ryder, carbine-action; two hundred shot range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time!” from.

One of those involves investing in character capabilities in order to fill your desires, the other involves making connections & taking actions to justify an NPC filling your desires using the BPC's capabilities.

 

[Vaalingrade]

No you don't. You end upm with your 8th level strength-based fighter using a magic war pick or magic dagger because it is the magic weapon you found.

Nope. Anything that doesn't fit my character gets sold and then I will scour the planet for something actually useful to them.

 

[Lanefan]

Nope. Anything that doesn't fit my character gets sold and then I will scour the planet for something actually useful to them.

Evil GM quietly makes note to self: "character weakness: will not and does not adapt to suit situation or circumstances".

 

[Vaalingrade]

Evil GM quietly makes note to self: "character weakness: will not and does not adapt to suit situation or circumstances".

/Vaal has abandoned the game.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No you don't. You end upm with your 8th level strength-based fighter using a magic war pick or magic dagger because it is the magic weapon you found.

Given how underpowered fighters are anyway, it seems to add insult to injury to stick them with a garbage weapon as well.

And who makes magic versions of rubbish weapons anyway?

 

[Lanefan]

Given how underpowered fighters are anyway, it seems to add insult to injury to stick them with a garbage weapon as well.

And who makes magic versions of rubbish weapons anyway?

Wild magic surges transferring the enchantment from one item to another?

And, it's always possible sometime in the past someone specialized in military pick commissioned an enchanted one; and particularly in a 5e-like environment where items almost never break, once it's made that thing is around forever...

 

[Lorithen]

Then you end up with a Dump Truck of Holding full of magic items that never get used.

In our campaign, these "spare" items that no-one can or wants to use might either get sold, traded in to cover training costs, or sacrificed by the resident Cleric. In the D&D version we play, many Cleric spells (e.g. Raise Dead, Restoration, high level ceremony spells, etc.) require sacrifices (some quite expensive), and deities aren't particularly picky as long as the item value adds up to what's required.

Also, in our system, if you fail your saving throw -- say against a Fireball -- each of your magic (and mundane) items have to make their saves as well or get fried. And sometimes what we call a "melt-down" might occur when and item goes "boom" and sets off a chain reaction where the other items you (or your comrades) are carrying or wearing then fail their saves and also go boom. If an item is in a backpack, it might get a bonus to its save or not be affected at all, depending what it is.

 

[Clint_L]

In our campaign, these "spare" items that no-one can or wants to use might either get sold, traded in to cover training costs, or sacrificed by the resident Cleric. In the D&D version we play, many Cleric spells (e.g. Raise Dead, Restoration, high level ceremony spells, etc.) require sacrifices (some quite expensive), and deities aren't particularly picky as long as the item value adds up to what's required.

Also, in our system, if you fail your saving throw -- say against a Fireball -- each of your magic (and mundane) items have to make their saves as well or get fried. And sometimes what we call a "melt-down" might occur when and item goes "boom" and sets off a chain reaction where the other items you (or your comrades) are carrying or wearing then fail their saves and also go boom. If an item is in a backpack, it might get a bonus to its save or not be affected at all, depending what it is.

Was that an AD&D rule or a home brew rule? It's been way too long but it sounds familiar and sparked a memory of dreading rolling saving throws for items.

Either way, I'm going to consider adding something like this to my home campaigns, for the same reason I added critical wounds - 5e is too safe.

 

[Lanefan]

Was that an AD&D rule or a home brew rule?

Bit of both. It's RAW that if you fail a save vs area damage your items and possessions then each have to save or be destroyed. It's a homebrew thing that on breaking, a magic item can sometimes release all its magic in a boom or a wild surge; and a boom can trigger another round of saves occasionally leading to a cascading series of destruction and pain. We call this a meltdown.

The 'boom' idea came from the 1e rules around intentionally breaking a wand (of lightning? fireball?) to generate a 'retributive strike': we tjhought that if it works this way for one item, why doesn't it work this way for all of them? At first the options were 'boom' or nothing; wild magic surges were added later.

It's been way too long but it sounds familiar and sparked a memory of dreading rolling saving throws for items.

Either way, I'm going to consider adding something like this to my home campaigns, for the same reason I added critical wounds - 5e is too safe.

 

[corwyn77]

The 'boom' idea came from the 1e rules around intentionally breaking a wand (of lightning? fireball?) to generate a 'retributive strike': we tjhought that if it works this way for one item, why doesn't it work this way for all of them? At first the options were 'boom' or nothing; wild magic surges were added later.

As I remember, that was only for the very powerful staves, of Magi and of Power.

 

[Lanefan]

As I remember, that was only for the very powerful staves, of Magi and of Power.

Could be.

 

[ECMO3]

Given how underpowered fighters are anyway, it seems to add insult to injury to stick them with a garbage weapon as well.

And who makes magic versions of rubbish weapons anyway?

I would disagree that they are underpowered and I would argue that the player who decided to get GWM and PAM instead of ASIs or broader feats is the one who ensured he had rubbish weapons.

In published adventures I think there are A LOT more magic daggers and maces than there are magic Glaives and Halberds. Many of them are not rubbish either. Things like the Silvered Skull Flail from DIA, the Dragontooth Dagger from HODQ and Tearluai from MadMage are pretty awesome weapons you get at relatively low level, but if you hamstrung your Fighter or Paladin by "optimizing" they are much less effective.

 

[ECMO3]

Not quite, that's where crafting comes into play. In my current game I have five players in it.

I have never been a player in a game where we had enough down time to craft anything other than scrolls and potions. Most of the time the only reason we could craft scrolls is because we had a Warlock or Elf that did not need to sleep 8 hours a day.

 

[Lanefan]

I have never been a player in a game where we had enough down time to craft anything other than scrolls and potions.

Which means either your DMs have been really piling on the time-crunch pressure (which gets tiresome if-when overdone) or some of the players were too keen to get on with things.

Otherwise, in theory all it takes is for you to say (in-character) "Guys, that's it. This is a fine town, so let's stay here for a month, craft some gear and otherwise take it easy. Keep your ears to the ground for later adventuring possibilities, and in the meantime we can enjoy spending our hard-won loot".

 

[Clint_L]

Which means either your DMs have been really piling on the time-crunch pressure (which gets tiresome if-when overdone) or some of the players were too keen to get on with things.

Otherwise, in theory all it takes is for you to say (in-character) "Guys, that's it. This is a fine town, so let's stay here for a month, craft some gear and otherwise take it easy. Keep your ears to the ground for later adventuring possibilities, and in the meantime we can enjoy spending our hard-won loot".

This could be it's own thread: how much down-time do you work into campaigns? I find most of the down-time in game comes either from travel or from real life breaks. I like the idea of starting up games by asking players what their characters did while they were "off" and giving them the option to have worked on bigger projects like these. Another note to self.

 

[Lanefan]

This could be it's own thread: how much down-time do you work into campaigns? I find most of the down-time in game comes either from travel or from real life breaks. I like the idea of starting up games by asking players what their characters did while they were "off" and giving them the option to have worked on bigger projects like these. Another note to self.

That's a big advantage of training to level up: it forces parties to take some downtime now and then whether they want to or not. (that said, it'd be hard to implement training in 5e without really slowing down the advancement rate)

Otherwise, as DM there'll be times when there's some time pressure and other times when it's completely up to the players/PCs what they do next and-or when and-or how quickly they go about it. There's also some players (like me) who can think of all sorts of things to do during downtime, while some other players have no use for it at all and just want to get on with the next adventure.

 

[ECMO3]

Which means either your DMs have been really piling on the time-crunch pressure (which gets tiresome if-when overdone) or some of the players were too keen to get on with things.

Otherwise, in theory all it takes is for you to say (in-character) "Guys, that's it. This is a fine town, so let's stay here for a month, craft some gear and otherwise take it easy. Keep your ears to the ground for later adventuring possibilities, and in the meantime we can enjoy spending our hard-won loot".

It is mostly pubished campaigns I have played. We actually started to do exactly what you said in Yartar in Princes of the Apocolypse (even though we were supposed to be looking for prisoners) and the Elemental cults started blowing up towns .... including Yartar where we were. Sop we packed up our gear and went back to work.

Most campaigns have a mission or theme that is time critical, and those that don't are generally not very engaging thematically.

Of the WOTC 5E campaigns I have played, the only one that really afforded downtime for crafting is Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the problem with that one is you are 12 levels deep in a dungeon and don't want to backtrack all the way back to the top to do it.

 

[Lanefan]

It is mostly pubished campaigns I have played. We actually started to do exactly what you said in Yartar in Princes of the Apocolypse (even though we were supposed to be looking for prisoners) and the Elemental cults started blowing up towns .... including Yartar where we were. Sop we packed up our gear and went back to work.

Most campaigns have a mission or theme that is time critical, and those that don't are generally not very engaging thematically.

Well, this might be one where you can't have it both ways.

Time-critical long-term missions - which includes most published adventure paths - and downtime don't tend to play very nice with each other.

I guess a way to do both might be to have individual adventures be time-critical but to have those adventures be more stand-alone rather than strung together in a hard-sequence path. So, a time-critical adventure might be one of rescuing the kidnapped prince within the three days given to pay the ransom. Then you can take some downtime until whenever the next mission arises (or you-as-players go and find one).

Of the WOTC 5E campaigns I have played, the only one that really afforded downtime for crafting is Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the problem with that one is you are 12 levels deep in a dungeon and don't want to backtrack all the way back to the top to do it.

Fair enough.