Best world books for different settings?

[Mercurius]

For different settings that have multiple cycles (or editions) of books, what are the best and why? Try to keep it to the main world books, although if a specific regional or topic book really stands out feel free to mention it.

For example, for the Forgotten Realms I like the original box set and the 3ed campaign setting book. The original box had that great Greenwood Realmsian flavor and seems the "purest" of the Realms products. The 3ed book is quite possibly the best fantasy rpg world book ever, if you take into account production value, comprehensiveness, maps, layout, and just about every category you can think of. Other books excel in certain areas, but that book is just good in every possible way (although the new Eberron book and Pathfinder's Golarion book come close).

Greyhawk - Is it the 1ed AD&D Gygax box set? The 2ed box set? The 3ed Living Greyhawk Gazetteer? What?

Forgotten Realms - I covered that above, but what do you think?

Most other D&D settings have only had one or two versions, but we could reach beyond and look at other games and settings: Glorantha, Shadow World, Talislanta, Tekumel, Warhammer, etc.

Talislanta - The Bard Games Worldbook. I don't have the recent one (Hotan's History of the World) so can't compare, but the Bard Games book has some of the most imaginative fantasy setting ideas I've ever come across.

Shadow World - 4ed. I've owned three of the four and the 4th is the best, although just a hair over the earlier box sets.

Tekumel - a tie between the newer Guardians of the Order book and the uglier, but more rich (and "Barkerian") Swords & Glory 1: Tekumel Sourcebook.

Eberron - 4ed.

 

[Mercurius]

Someone? Anyone? I know this sort of topic has been done to death, but I'm trying to get pointers for adding to my collection. In particular I'm wondering what is considered to be the best Greyhawk worldbook, but I'm interested in pretty much any setting.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Not so familiar with multiple editions of that many setting books. . .

But I would agree with the Forgotten Realms 3e choice (not my favourite setting, you might say, but still) and, even though it's also a complete game, I would nominate Pendragon fourth edition as the best of its kind. Green Knight Publishing's printing, of course (I mean, how cool is that!)

I'll have to think about this one, and see if any other comparative studies spring to mind.

 

[Mercurius]

So you like 4th edition Pendragon more than any other edition overall, or just the setting part? The reason I ask is that Pendragon is on my long list of RPGs that I want to add to my collection, but I haven't been sure which edition to look for. As a general rule of thumb I find that the most current edition is the "best" one, ahem, but sometimes that isn't the case, ahem (for example, I know a lot of folks like the 2nd or 3rd edition of Ars Magica best).

 

[Voadam]

Ravenloft:

I have three versions, the original boxed set, Domains of Dread, and the 3e Campaign Setting.

I find the first one the most evocative, the art and descriptions work, I like the advice on atmospherics, and I seriously prefer the setting preconjunction/pre-Grim Harvest with Darkon as a vanilla fantasy D&D ravenloft realm instead of an undead holocaust region. It inspired me to run the setting for years.

Domains of Dread (late 2e) has more support for native characters and non humans but I don't like the art, setting, and atmospherics as much.

3e I don't care for the art as much and the setting has the explicit elements from other D&D worlds removed (FR references, Taladas references, Soth, Greyhawk references) as well as the holocaust Darkon. It is however the best presentation of the setting for a player wanting to play there, everything up until the appendix on ravenloft themed horror templates is charachter appropriate, including info on famous people and rulers. Excellently done for that perspective.

 

[ggroy]

Greyhawk - Is it the 1ed AD&D Gygax box set? The 2ed box set? The 3ed Living Greyhawk Gazetteer? What?

Amongst my Greyhawk grognard friends, the hardcore ones do not consider the "Greyhawk Wars" as legitimate Greyhawk canon. (They think the "Greyhawk Wars" was an abomination of the setting).

With that being said, they typically played using the 1983 Greyhawk box set or the 1980 folio.

For the City of Greyhawk, they used the 2E AD&D "City of Greyhawk" box as background. For Castle Greyhawk, they used a combination of the 2E AD&D "Greyhawk Ruins" supplement and the "Castle Zagyg" books (by Troll Lords) for background.

 

[Voadam]

Someone? Anyone? I know this sort of topic has been done to death, but I'm trying to get pointers for adding to my collection. In particular I'm wondering what is considered to be the best Greyhawk worldbook, but I'm interested in pretty much any setting.

Greyhawk:

I have a couple of these:

The OD&D original folio, the AD&D 1980s boxed set, the 2e From the Ashes Boxed set, the late 2e Player's Guide, and I used to have the 3e Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.

They each do the setting differently, presenting different strengths.

The folio gives nice concise one paragraph descriptions for each of the countries, probably the best one for getting a handle on their history, politics, and their relationships as many split off from the Great Kingdom and were influenced by human ethnic migrations. It does not even reference the gods and only provides the bare bones of the countries and geographical features, leaving a lot of room for the DM to work in. It is short and this is the only one I read cover to cover.

The 80s boxed set expands on the folio including the pantheons and such. Plenty of room to work in and breathe but more history flavor and details to grab onto. All the AD&D modules fit right in and feel like they fit. To me it also feels the most complementary to the 1e DMG, not just a matching of independent rules and settings.

From the Ashes reboots the setting after a series of wars turning it much darker with exhausted countries of good threatened by evil nations that have expanded or fallen into destructive chaos after the war and fiends were unleashed upon the land and roam in great numbers. Great in depth description with tons of NPCs, events going on, plots, etc. and a fantastic delving into the pantheon with great 2e god descriptions. I like it a lot.

The Player's Guide is a less oppressively Dark Fantasy return for Greyhawk with the demon's having been banished and evil nations and armies pulling back leaving places of mystery for dungeon exploration instead of armies and politics and such. I remember it having a decent section for the human ethnic groups but its been a while.

I don't have the end of the 2e era The Adventure Begins one.

I also don't have the short 3e Greyhawk gazeteer.

The 3e Living Greyhawk Gazeteer brings together a ton of expanded universe greyhawk lore (expanded pantheon, revealed histories, etc.) and organizes it nicely while keeping almost entirely stat free. I really liked the god info here.

So which is best for you depends on what you want.

Just a background of kingdoms with some kingdom and ethnic history/politics to set as the backdrop of your D&D game? go with the Folio.

Want the quintessential 1e Gygax AD&D game? Go with the boxed set.

Want a well detailed dark fantasy D&D setting with tons of adventure/setting hooks? From the Ashes.

A not as quirky medieval D&D setting? Go with the later 2e.

Want a great overview to everything Greyhawk as it has developed? Go with the Living Gazeteer.

 

[amerigoV]

For Eberron, I particularly liked two Supplements (aside from the core book):

Stormreach - what I like about it was the fact that Stormreach is NOT Sharn, Greyhawk, Waterdeep, Ptolus. It is a smaller and a microcosm of Khorvaire.

Faiths of Eberron - it was actual, useful information on the various religions of the setting. I won't say it is the most exciting material in its presentation, but it is not just rehashing the core book and adding in Avatars the PCs can fight (cough ** FR Faiths and Patheons ** cough).

 

[jonesy]

For Dragonlance it's the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, together with War of the Lance and Age of Mortals.

I love the old books, but they really have nothing on the latest. Sovereign Press for the win.

 

[grodog]

Amongst my Greyhawk grognard friends, the hardcore ones do not consider the "Greyhawk Wars" as legitimate Greyhawk canon. (They think the "Greyhawk Wars" was an abomination of the setting).

I've found large chunks of Sargent-era GH to be useful in campaigns, although I still can't get into the animus-takeover of the Great Kingdom (therefore, of course, I ignore it ).

With that being said, they typically played using the 1983 Greyhawk box set or the 1980 folio.

They're usually my baseline, although I've cannibalized materials from across GH eras (and other settings) for use in specific campaigns in the past.

For the City of Greyhawk, they used the 2E AD&D "City of Greyhawk" box as background.

FWIW, I prefer to use Denis Tetreault's CoG maps, with the key based on the Living Greyhawk Journal articles (issues 2, 3, and 5), and Roger Moore's 2e The Adventure Begins. Along with liberal doses of 1e Lankhmar, Chaosium's Thieves World box set detailing Sanctuary, Thieves Guild/Haven, Bard's Gate, Waterdeep, Marienburg, and Pavis.

For Castle Greyhawk, they used a combination of the 2E AD&D "Greyhawk Ruins" supplement and the "Castle Zagyg" books (by Troll Lords) for background.

I'm not a fan of Greyhawk Ruins, but Castle Zagyg isn't really sufficient to get started quite by itself, either. You can certainly supplement CZ with Joe Bloch's Castle of the Mad Archmage, as well as RJK's Maure Castle and Bottle City, and a variety of other sources (see my CZ review [warning: 15 page .pdf file] for suggestions), but I think you're definitely on the right track!

[The OD&D original folio, the AD&D 1980s boxed set, the 2e From the Ashes Boxed set, the late 2e Player's Guide, and the 3e Living Greyhawk Gazetteer] --- they each do the setting differently, presenting different strengths.

Great post, Voadam!

The three things I'll add are that

1. Roger Moore's "The Adventure Begins" book provides a solid and useful update for the City of Greyhawk, and is well-worth checking out (but, per my post above, use Maldin's maps!)

2. the Dragon Magazine Archive includes a pile of excellent updates for the setting (in the 576-77 timeframes IIRC), as well as good materials that never made it into the 1983 boxed set (like the Suel pantheon)

3. fan support for Greyhawk is huge: check out Canonfire! World of Greyhawk on the Web and the many other excellent Greyhawk sites out there for material that can help make your GH games more fun!

So which is best for you depends on what you want.

I agree whole-heartedly: you can basically run any campaign and style you want in Greyhawk: the setting will support nearly any style/flavor/culture/etc. well, regardless of whether that's an Ice Age low-magic/low tech setting, a high-magic Moorcockian planar setting, a city-based heavy role-playing intrigue and diplomacy game, etc.: the setting is that flexible while allowing you to still call it a "Greyhawk game".