Beware!!! Beholders a Head

[Percivellian]

From Protection Against Evil:

Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). (emphasis added)

It doesn't say direct control, but just what 'ongoing control' means is a little ambiguous. Both Dominate Person and Charm Person/Monster have durations, and are both enchantment spells (compulsion and charm, respectively) that allow the caster to excercise mental control, though the former is definitely more powerful than the second.

Granted Charm Person does say: "The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton (emphasis added)", but I think the word here is incidental in describing just what the spell allows you to do. I would think causing your fighter to regard a beholder as a friend (if not giving direct orders), even while said beholder is killing his allies could easily be regarded as mental control.

Also, I'm not sure how the logic holds with this, but it seems odd that PrAE would protect against a 5th level Sorc/Wiz spell (Dominate Person) and not against a 1st level one (Charm Person).

 

[Saeviomagy]

I would seriously suggest:

Divination for the cleric. I don't know why noone ever seems to make use of this. Some augurys wouldn't go astray either.

Beyond that, damage, damage, damage. A beholder is a bit of a paper tiger.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Incorrect. Protection from Evil only protects against those spells and powers which give direct control. (Dominate Person/Monster) Charm Person/Monster is unaffected.

BZZT. Check the 3.0 faq for full clarification.

The second function of the protection from evil spell
blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature or to
exercise mental control over the creature. What, exactly,
counts as mental control?

“Mental control” includes all spells of the school of
Enchantment that have the Charm subschool, such as animal
friendship, charm person, and charm monster. It also includes
some Enchantment spells of the Compulsion subschool if those
spells grant the caster ongoing control over the subject; such
spells include dominate person and dominate monster.
Compulsions that merely dictate the subject’s action at the time
the spell takes effect are not blocked. Such spells include
command, hold person, geas/quest, hypnotism, insanity, Otto’s
irresistible dance, random action, suggestion, and zone of
truth.

So, there you go.

 

[Andre]

For the party:

Any spell that boosts mobility (fly, overland flight, longstrider, expeditious retreat). Smart beholders don't let you get close enough to hack them up.

Any spell that boosts ranged attacks. One archer, even in an anti-magic area, can ruin a beholder's day. With full buffs, he's even more dangerous to the poor eye tyrant.

Any spell that boosts saves. I lost a 10th level monk to a beholder's disintegrate. Monk had great saves, but got hit by four rays and missed one save. Guess which one...

As someone else has said, Protection from Evil. Great spell.

Haste. Save this for when someone blows a save vs. slow ray. A slowed character is a sitting duck.

For the beholder:

Blindness, glitterdust, anything to that blocks LOS and lasts for a while.

Slow. What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Last ditch tactic:

Have someone grapple the beholder! It's strength is so low, it can't fly while being grappled, allowing the party to close and kill it. Of course, you better kill it quick, as the grappler won't last long.

 

[shilsen]

Transmute Rock to Mud. On the ceiling above the beholder.

 

[Felon]

Yhen when the Beholers changed tactics, and targeted the Cleric, the Mage would Anti-Magic field and charge it. Then the fighters would tear it up....

If the fighter can back it into a corner and hack at it, then it won't last long.

Have someone grapple the beholder! It's strength is so low, it can't fly while being grappled, allowing the party to close and kill it. Of course, you better kill it quick, as the grappler won't last long.

Ugggh.....I know there are DM's out there that think all combat should be melee-friendly, but these tactics should just not work with an eye tyrant.

For the party:
Any spell that boosts mobility (fly, overland flight, longstrider, expeditious retreat). Smart beholders don't let you get close enough to hack them up.

Exactly. I am pretty surprised to hear multiple folks suggest meleeing a beholder as if combat will take place on the ground. A beholder always flies (or floats), enjoys a ridiculously long range with its beams, and has a disintegrate effect usable at will; his home turf should not have low ceilings.

Really though, beholders go down pretty quickly in 3e. The save DC for the eye beams is only 17 however, and it can only focus 3 beams in any given arc, and he has to target them without the benefit of any special senses. Moreover, the stupid central eye is a real hindrance for him, and DM's across the board seem to use it injudiciously. Worst of all (for it anyway), the thing has little in the way of defenses. One failed Will save against a hold/charm monster and it's all over.

It's definitely worth coming at it from different directions.

This statement puzzles me. if it can see and fire in all directions, but can only fit 3 beams into a single arc, how is coming at it from different angles an effective tactic? If anything, you'rre making it easier for the beholder. He get to turn more beams on the party, and would have the option of using the central eye to neutralize the casters in one arc while blasting others.

To fight a beholder, you huddle together and pelt it with nonmagical ranged attacks. Casters simply delay or ready actions to blast the bejeezus out of it when it closes the central eye (which it will have to do to attack if you have a sufficiently compact formation).

 

[Harmon]

Thank you for the suggestions, please keep them coming.

Some of the ideas I had, were brought up (blind/deaf) and some were not (obs mist). Summoning up some critters and letting them flank and get round the Beholder was something I had dismissed, but I see the logic in it now- make the Beholder work for his life with lots of distractions.

We have a couple of melee combatants, and one ranged person plus the wizards, so getting the Beholder into melee range is a must- Fly spells (copy that).

Not sure what we have between him and us, but knowing the GM it should be interesting and very, very tough to get to him and kill him.

Once we have the Beholder down then we can seal the exit/entrance with Wall of Stone- a couple to discourage pursuit should do the trick, and feel confident that nothing else will follow (I hope there is only one beholder)

Once again, thank you.

 

[Felon]

We have a couple of melee combatants, and one ranged person plus the wizards, so getting the Beholder into melee range is a must- Fly spells (copy that).

There's a few big problems with fly spells here. First, you can't fly up very quickly with fly spells, as each square of upwards movement costs double. You also can't charge up when flying, only down. Your DM may or may not be on the ball about flight rules enough to know any of that, but he will know that once characters are 100 feet up in the air, it's the perfect time to use the central eye.

Not sure what we have between him and us, but knowing the GM it should be interesting and very, very tough to get to him and kill him.

The classic design has him using hit-and-run tactics, with a honeycomb of holes in the ceiling that it can pop in and out of (note the flyby attack feat allows to both start and finish its turn behind total cover), or even deny the players a target altogether by firing its eyes through holes in a wall. Smart DM's realize beholders don't hold their ground very well--and they don't have to.

Once we have the Beholder down then we can seal the exit/entrance with Wall of Stone- a couple to discourage pursuit should do the trick, and feel confident that nothing else will follow (I hope there is only one beholder)

Well, remember that using all the eye beams is just a free action. It can thus disintegrate any obstruction you put in its escape path without even being slowed down (that's also why the aforementioned suggestion of casting slow on it doesn't work wonders).

 

[Harmon]

There's a few big problems with fly spells here. First, you can't fly up very quickly with fly spells, as each square of upwards movement costs double. You also can't charge up when flying, only down. Your DM may or may not be on the ball about flight rules enough to know any of that, but he will know that once characters are 100 feet up in the air, it's the perfect time to use the central eye.

Ya, copy that. The idea I had was- just get the melee combatants in close so they can do their thing.

The classic design has him using hit-and-run tactics, with a honeycomb of holes in the ceiling that it can pop in and out of (note the flyby attack feat allows to both start and finish its turn behind total cover), or even deny the players a target altogether by firing its eyes through holes in a wall. Smart DM's realize beholders don't hold their ground very well--and they don't have to.

Part of the problem of asking for help is sometimes those you ask for help- help the GM.

Well, remember that using all the eye beams is just a free action. It can thus disintegrate any obstruction you put in its escape path without even being slowed down (that's also why the aforementioned suggestion of casting slow on it doesn't work wonders).

Sorry, not sure I was clear on what I meant- when the Beholder goes down, kinda implies that "when we kill him," normally I am not that optimistic, right now (while the Beholder is alive) we can't just seal the entrance with Wall of Stone, we have to kill the Beholder first, and then seal it- guess I wasn't very clear on that, my bad. Sorry.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Andre]

There's a few big problems with fly spells here. First, you can't fly up very quickly with fly spells, as each square of upwards movement costs double. You also can't charge up when flying, only down. Your DM may or may not be on the ball about flight rules enough to know any of that, but he will know that once characters are 100 feet up in the air, it's the perfect time to use the central eye.

True. Which is why the archer and spellcasters (who are on the ground and don't need to get into melee) can then kill it.

The classic design has him using hit-and-run tactics, with a honeycomb of holes in the ceiling that it can pop in and out of (note the flyby attack feat allows to both start and finish its turn behind total cover), or even deny the players a target altogether by firing its eyes through holes in a wall. Smart DM's realize beholders don't hold their ground very well--and they don't have to.

Also, it may have some helpful allies thanks to its charm ray. Don't assume you're only facing a beholder. A smart beholder will have grunts to keep you at a distance, take out your ranged specialists, etc.

Also, the telekinesis ray can be perfect for setting off traps. Put a lever 40' up a wall that causes a cave in at a strategic point. Or releases a flock of stirges. Or drops a huge gelatinous cube on the party. Multiply said levers by a dozen. Remember, these things are very, very intelligent.

Well, remember that using all the eye beams is just a free action. It can thus disintegrate any obstruction you put in its escape path without even being slowed down (that's also why the aforementioned suggestion of casting slow on it doesn't work wonders).

Absolutely right. My idea is that the beholder can only fiy 20' to start with. Slowing it to 10' may actually give some of the party a chance to close with it. And, as others have said, it has no really good defenses. IF the party tanks get close enough, it's usually dead in one round.

BTW - Dimension Door or Teleport are good spells to have prepared if things go sour. If the party gets away, you can always come back later (or not ).