Bhut (conversion from X4)

Sixten · Jan 9, 2009

Original post updated with revised stats, slightly tweaked defenses, and new uncanny approach power.

King Nate · Jan 9, 2009

Sixten said:
Was there a specific reason you changed these around, or just design flavor? (Your version of the bite, by the way, should probably say "hits with both attacks from Twin Claws," or something.)

The thing about the bless vulnerability is that it was really a challenge for the players. And blessed melee attacks, while not exactly rare in D&D, were a lot less common than sources of radiant damage in 4E. I don't really like "trick" monsters in 4E, but I also don't want clerics and paladins to automatically just mow through these guys.

This, on the other hand, I like. I don't think I'd make it instant death, but definitely pile on some extra damage.

I also have some revisions to my original creature that I'll post a bit later. (Stats and defenses, and another power to make them more skirmisher-y.)

There are a number of reasons why I changed this around, while I am a huge fan of the recharge ability for monsters, I see it more as time spent building up to some power. For example; the time needed to create a magical effect, the time needed to build up that breath weapon, or the time needed to spot an opening for the attack. (Ok, so the bite can probably fit into that last description.)

I'll get back to this after I explain the claw attacks.

I would say roughly 90% of the non-minon monsters in the MM has at least one other standard at-will attack besides their basic melee attack. A lot of times it is just a double basic attack, kind of what I was doing before.

You say you don't like trick monsters, how about a monster that runs around using their basic attack, basic attack, basic attack, then BAM! a bite that dazes and weakens the character (save ends both). If I was a player I would be like WTF?!

Speaking of dazed and weakened, in my research I have only found one monster that had a single attack that both dazed and weakened their foes. It was a solo monster and the attack power was an encounter power. Not even Orcus or any of the dragons have this amazing combination in a single attack.

According to the version of the bhut that I have a bite will numb the target. I think either dazed or weaken is a fine substitute for numbing, but not both.

So back to the recharge power. I was thinking something along the lines of the bhut having to set up the bite instead of waiting for it to recharge. I might have quickly tossed my thoughts on it instead of thinking about it. After thinking about it I think it should go like this:

Instead of having the twin claw attack the bhut has;

Maul (standard; at-will)
The bhut makes two claw attacks. If both claw attacks hit the same target, the bhut makes a secondary attack against the target. Secondary Attack: +11 vs. AC; the target is grabbed (until escape).

Cold Bite (standard; at-will)
The bhut deals to a grabbed target 2d6 + 3 cold damage, and target is weakened (save ends, no attack roll required) this ends the effect of the grab.

Also in the version I have, a blessed weapon will kill a bhut, automatically. Now maybe a vulnerability of 20 is too much, but I can't see 10 being so.

Maybe a change, a critical hit from a weapon with the radiant keyword brings a bhuts hit points to 0.

Sixten · Jan 9, 2009

King Nate said:
while I am a huge fan of the recharge ability for monsters, I see it more as time spent building up to some power.

You say you don't like trick monsters, how about a monster that runs around using their basic attack, basic attack, basic attack, then BAM! a bite that dazes and weakens the character (save ends both). If I was a player I would be like WTF?!

But recharge powers start out "up", as far as I know. They're basically encounter + some chance of coming back sooner. So, yes, a player could be surprised by a more powerful attack out of the blue, but lots of thing in 4E (players and monsters) have encounter powers. That's not really a trick in the way I meant it.

(Which was that the original bhut was designed to look and act like some kind of undead. But it wasn't undead at all. And while it's immune to non-magical weapons, bless will insta-kill it. The whole thing seems to me like a psych-out for the players. ... Not that that's uncommon in classic D&D.

)

I would say roughly 90% of the non-minon monsters in the MM has at least one other standard at-will attack besides their basic melee attack. A lot of times it is just a double basic attack, kind of what I was doing before.

I'll take another look. But a double attack as an at-will is much stronger than having a second at-will attack power.

Speaking of dazed and weakened, in my research I have only found one monster that had a single attack that both dazed and weakened their foes. ... According to the version of the bhut that I have a bite will numb the target. I think either dazed or weaken is a fine substitute for numbing, but not both.

Yeah, there isn't really a good analog in 4E for the numbing that the X4 bhut had, but maybe dazed + weakened is too strong. How about if the dazed is only for one round, rather than save ends both?

And, by the way, when I asked about your reasoning, I wasn't trying to challenge your work, just to understand what led you to those decisions. This is a modeling problem, and with any modeling problem, there will be differences of approach, and those are exactly what I find interesting and fun about doing this kind of thing.

Mesh Hong · Jan 9, 2009

For what its worth here is my version of the Bhut. Please note I am unfamiliar with this monster so I have tried to keep to spirit of what Sixten was going for.

Bhut Level 8 Skirmisher
Medium Natural Humanoid (shapechanger) XP 350

Initiative +9 Senses Perception +6
HP 90; Bloodied 45
AC 22; Fortitude 20, Reflex 21, Will 20
Immune charm, disease;
Resist 5 necrotic; Vulnerable 10 radiant (weapon damage only)
Speed 6

[FONT=D&D 4e icons]M[/FONT] Claw (Standard; at-will)
Attack +13 vs. AC; 1d8+5 damage

[FONT=D&D 4e icons]m[/FONT] Bite (Standard; recharge [FONT=D&D 4e icons]56) [/FONT]♦ cold
Attack +13 vs. AC; 2d8+2 cold damage

[FONT=D&D 4e icons]m[/FONT] Expose Weakness (Standard; at-will)
Attack +11 vs. Will; 1d6+5 damage; on hit target grants combat
advantage to Bhut until the end of Bhuts next turn

Dizzying Blow
If Bhut has combat advantage it deals and additional +1d6 damage and
target is dazed and weakened (save ends both, +2 bonus to save)

Shape of Evil♦ polymorph
At dawn, the Bhut assumes the appearance of a normal human. The Bhut
has no control over their human appearance, which will be the same each
day. This effect lasts until dusk, when the Bhut resumes its true
appearance. This ability will function even if the Bhut has not rested, or is
unconscious.

Alignment Evil Languages common
Skills bluff +12, stealth +14
Str 14 (+6) Dex 20 (+9) Wis 14 (+6)
Con 18 (+8) Int 10 (+4) Cha 16 (+7)

Personally I think that daze and weaken might be a bit strong (this is why I gave a +2 bomus to the save), but this is an 8th level monster. I think you would have to think VERY carefully about having more than 2 of these guys in a standard encounter.

Looking at my proposed Expose Weakness power I think this could be toned down to either a recharge [FONT=D&D 4e icons]56 [/FONT]or even an encounter power. That might balance it a little better.

Sixten · Jan 10, 2009

Mesh Hong said:
Personally I think that daze and weaken might be a bit strong (this is why I gave a +2 bomus to the save), but this is an 8th level monster.

Yeah, I've been thinking of maybe revising my original power to be:

:melee: