Biased Reviews- Part 2

[Psion]

Ah, Mr. Ibach, why am I not surprised.

He seems like a nice enough guy, and his site is pretty nice. But he should go through a lesson on "conflict of interest" sometimes.

I was unaware that he had any affiliation with Troll Lord games. I do know that he has playtested for Mongoose and consistently rates Mongoose products highly. I have gone on record as saying I do not think playtesters or employees of a company should be writing reviews for their own products. Being a playtester writing a review of a product (which in your own opinion was subject to the best scrutiny, right?) is not unbiased.

I think if these sorts of things are even allowed, there should be a check box like RPGnet has, self identifying yourself as an affiliate of the company so at least your rating isn't lumped in with the average.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Waylander, based on your presumptions the reviewer in question should really be working for Mongoose.

Basically, he hasn't given anything he reviewed less than a 4/5. Whether from Troll Lords, Mongoose, or someone else. Some reviewers aren't overly critical, some simply don't like to give bad reviews and don't write reviews of the items they don't like.

In any case, you obviously don't agree with his reviews. So, don't use them. A majority of the reviews on the ENWorld site are written by FANS. In other words, someone that loves the latest module they got writes about it, or someone that HATES the latest module they got writes about it, etc.

A vast number of internet sites post reviews of d20 material. Search these for reviews of items you already own. Find reviews written by a reviewer that tends to agree with your opinion and hope their bias is similar to yours.

I would suggest looking at Alan Kohler's reviews. He has been reviewing RPG items for a very long time for rpg.net as well as ENWorld. He gives detailed, and I believe, fair reviews. Then again, he and I often agree on material, though sometimes for different reasons so I give his reviews a great deal of weight.

Edit: It took so long for my post to get through that Alan seems to have posted immediately above me...
Are the boards slow for anyone else?

 

[Psion]

I have had a problem with many of the reviews I find. So many folks are so lieniant that the reviews mean next to nothing for me. I do not percieve a 3 as "dogging" a product, merely stating that it is a sound product, but could use some work - that covers 95% of the d20 stuff I have purchased.

Trust me... some publishers don't feel the same. AFAIAC, you gotta own your faults (subjective as it may be), but a three is a recognition that there is something worthwhile in the product.

But there are two publishers that don't send me stuff anymore because I dared to say so. Ah, well. Them's the breaks.

There is a little bellyhoo over the reviews of Librius - someone is pissed because they felt decieved by the reviews.

Oooh! Do not get me started on that! Having a different opinion than the majority is one thing. Slandering them for being deceitful and acusing them of being on the sly is another thing entirely.

 

[Psion]

In any case, you obviously don't agree with his reviews. So, don't use them. A majority of the reviews on the ENWorld site are written by FANS. In other words, someone that loves the latest module they got writes about it, or someone that HATES the latest module they got writes about it, etc.

Good advice. Chances are if you follow some reviewers, you will find one that consistently rates things like you do. Focus on their review.

To be honest, I attach very little to the ratings on ENWorld. If a product is rated consistently low or consistently high, that may tell you something. But some in-between products could be just the thing you are looking for, and some products get unfairly boosted or panned.

I would suggest looking at Alan Kohler's reviews. He has been reviewing RPG items for a very long time for rpg.net as well as ENWorld. He gives detailed, and I believe, fair reviews. Then again, he and I often agree on material, though sometimes for different reasons so I give his reviews a great deal of weight.

And if you read my reviews, don't just look at the number... read the review. As I said, I only attach so much value to the number. That one nitpick of mine that knocked it down may be one quality that you absolutely cannot abide. OTOH, a product that I find fairly tepid for general purposes may be just the thing you are looking for.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Trust me... some publishers don't feel the same. AFAIAC, you gotta own your faults (subjective as it may be), but a three is a recognition that there is something worthwhile in the product.

But there are two publishers that don't send me stuff anymore because I dared to say so. Ah, well. Them's the breaks.

Yeah, some companies get rather upset if you give them a 3. I don't write many reviews any more, now that I have writing jobs with a few different publishers it doesn't quite seem right. I generally have a policy that if something is REALLY bad, someone else is going to trash it. My ego is such that I don't feel the need to demonstrate my wit by trashing someone else's work. On the other hand, I have given out 3's many times. I would say about half the time I gave out a 3 someone ripped me for it, either by email or on a board. I consider a 3 to be average, there is something worthwhile there for the "target audience" but there was plenty of room for improvement. In other words, a 3 is not a slam, just an "okay."

And if you read my reviews, don't just look at the number... read the review. As I said, I only attach so much value to the number. That one nitpick of mine that knocked it down may be one quality that you absolutely cannot abide. OTOH, a product that I find fairly tepid for general purposes may be just the thing you are looking for.

Unfortunately, people tend to look at the number first. All of the work you have done to separate the different elements often gets ignored. I always prefered writing reviews where I didn't "rate" the product, just reviewed it and gave my opinion as to who would like it and why.

Frankly, I like your reviews Alan. You generally have a slightly different perspective than I do, but we usually agree on most products.

Edit: My connection is just so slow today that people have already responded before I actually see my own post. Didn't feel the need to make another post ...

 

[Eosin the Red]

Alan & Patrick,


Agree 100% with your posts and in a way it was what I was trying to say. It is a shame that so many people find 3's objectionable, esp companies. Alot of other things are inflationary, just look at grades and degrees. A BS once upon a time meant something.

To re-inforce what was said before in my clumsy attempt - the numbers don't really matter. The discussion of the guts of the product are the only thing that provide you with a clue.


PS - Alan, I READ your reviews before I head out to buy a product. Not to make my decision for me, but to filter out some of the chaff. I don't buy modules/supplements that have half-dragon-ooze-lycanthrope-vampire-fiendish-constructs antagonists(eliminates everything from WotC). Your reviews let me know what to expect on the inside. Thanks for the effort.

 

[gustavef]

mindless sheep

Personaly, I follower a set of reviewers. (and I too am a follower of psion 8*). And I sort of don't mind biased reviews. I like to get both a techincal over view of a product and an emotional feel for a product.

I also want to see at least one "bad" review of a product before I make a decision. I want to know what someone did not like. There is always something that "just isn't right" with any product.

I use the stars (or other such score) as a first pass. And personaly, as long as it at least rates a 3 out of 5, then there is something of value for me. But I don't buy that much (maybe about 20 - 30 dollars a month) so I look for things that I need, or could use in my current campagin.

In the end, I expect reviews to be biased. That way I can find the one that has the same views as I do.

-gustavef

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

Heh, you should see my book shelf!! The darn thing is falling off (8000 miniatures will do that)!!
I have read many reviews which i have disagreed with. This situation irritated me because the confilict of interest was very obvious! I usually read several reviews and one of the products i bought was shrinkwrapped (shoulda known).

The reviews, i felt, were misleading on purpose. This was just a feeling at the time but the more i learned of it (the said person playtesting products etc.) the more it upset me. Further, the Troll Lord trilogy was mediocre at best (being an early product there were a bunch of these - text density, editing errors, plot holes, D20 compliance etc). This should not happen, ever. If you are affiliated or are working with companies (or if the company belongs to your mother) then state this prior to the review.

Take Allan or Simons reviews; there are many times i have disagreed with them. But when i do read the reviews there is an unbiased and pertinent flow of information. The whole thing stank especially when he was offered a position with the said company ( i had stated this opinion about three months ago).
Please look into the products (the Vakund? Trilogy) and read the reviews. If Allan or Simon can come to a similar conclusion as the reviewer, I will fully retract my statement with a full apology.

 

[der_kluge]

I think that if you work for any D20 company, writing ANY review would be a conflic of interest.

I mean, I write for Thunderhead Games, and I obviously would never think to write a review of one of our own products, it just wouldn't look good for me to write a review on ANY product, except *maybe* WoTC products, since it would seem that, for the most part, D20 doesn't *really* compete with WoTC, but that's a topic for another day.

So, I'd say that we should not allow any freelance D20 writer to post ANY reviews.

 

[Crothian]

Actually I think it's fine foir people who work in the business to give their reviews (opinions) on projects. I just think they should tell us that they work for whatever company as the first sentence. For the most part the people who work for all these d20 companies seem like nice guys and it's interesting to hear what people in the business think about other projects.