Binder and Pact Magic

[Nikroecyst]

For those of you who have read the Tome and Magic you may be familiar with the Binder Base Class and the Pact Magic they use. In my campaign world normal magic has become tiresome and tedious. Im looking for a new type of magic to either add or replace the old magic system. The system has to be simple due the players having ridiculously short attention spans. I live out in the middle of nowhere and talk to few people so I would like to get some oppinions on the Pact Magic from people who are "in the know".
I've seen it used only a couple of times and it seemed to be very dramatic and gave plenty of oppurtunities for players to get more involved with thier character's personality (lost of ROLE-playing).

Im mostly looking for oppinions not listed in the book. Do you think players will find it even more complicated? Any ideas on world builds with Pact Magic? How does it affect Clerics in a group when it comes to player on player encounters? What are your personal experiences with Pact Magic?

 

[Henry]

I currently play a Binder in a Planescape game.

FIRST: In my opinion Binders are somewhat underpowered compared to the base classes, and WOEFULLY underpowered compared to some of the newer classes like Book of Nine Swords classes. Binders have wonderful flavor, and some unique powers -- you won't feel like any other PC in the group. They're versatile like bards, and slightly underpowered in a role, like bards; However, by default, they must pick their role in the group and remain in that role for 24 hours; if they pick the wrong role, then they're out of luck. Further, they're a pale shadow of the normal class in that role (healer, fighter, etc.)

For this reason, the "Expel Vestige" feat is ESSENTIAL to a low-level Binder.

 

[Nikroecyst]

Keeping that in mind would you say it would be ok to grant Expel Vestige as a class ability at 8th level (when you get 2 Vestiges) or even at first (in case you are influenced by a "bad" pact)?

 

[Henry]

I would say that a Binder needs it, whether he gets it free or not, at 1st level and onward. Their strength is their versatility, but then it's curbed immediately by them having to pick their vestige for 24 hours. Even if the binder's next two bind check fail (causing them to make a poor pact, but not to get the pact), it's still worth the ability to take a minute or two, and swap out the vestige in case the adventure's environment drastically changes. I just recently took it at 9th level (campaign started at 7th), and I've regretted not having it for a while, now.

Vestige Phylacteries are also great magic items for a Binder, for this same reason. We just found one as treasure, and I definitely feel much better about situations now than before.

 

[Nikroecyst]

I've also gone through and created a few new Vestiges based on past epic characters in my games and in my dm's games (which are actually based on recent pets). I plan on adding more. Thier more comical and ment to be taken light hearted and not as serious though they do grant some good abilities both in and out of combat. And one extra serious one based on the long time running villian of my campaign world (which turns out alot like Acererak).

I was thinking of replacing normal 3.5 standard magic with just pact magic in my campaign world due to the fact that they are running the tomb of horrors right now and i think that freeing Acererak's influence upon the world would make for a great continuation of the campaign after the ToH (i dont' think i will be running the return to the toh so i wanted to continue it somehow). I could reason that since thier awakening to Acererak's Vestige, other Vestiges, whom have laid dormant or quiet are now also awakening and normaly magic is dying out due to its upsurge.

What are your opinions on using Pact Magic to replace the standard 3.5 magic system? Give it to me straight, I can take it :::whimpers in the corner:::

 

[Henry]

What are your opinions on using Pact Magic to replace the standard 3.5 magic system? Give it to me straight, I can take it :::whimpers in the corner:::

Very unsuited for it, as-is; if it were a low-magic game, it would work well, but for a default D&D game, there may be some problems.

Another thread that may give you some ideas is http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=187813

In it, someone is just starting germinating some ideas for a "Book of Nine Swords" style magic system to overhaul the current Vancian "per day" spell system. You might glean some ideas from their efforts there, or might even have something useful to add yourself.