Birthright Conversion WIP

[Jessica]

I caught the nostalgia bug after digging out my Birthright boxed set and I kinda want to run a game of it in 5e when my schedule opens up and/or when I finish my current campaign of 13th Age I just started. I was considering keeping as much as I could from the 2e aspect of the setting(including race restrictions on class, multiclassing restrictions, ability score requirements, and followers for classes that get them). To offset the whole ability score requirement thing, I would probably use one of the really generous ability score rolling methods (possibly 5d6 drop the two lowest or maybe 4d6 drop the lowest twelve times and pick six of your choice) since some classes that are used to having a super high score in a certain stat might not have that option(e.g. Enchanters requiring a 9 Int and 16 Cha means that they won't have a high score going to Dex or Con like they normally do). So here is kind of what I was thinking so far in differences from normal 5e/Birthright:

Races
Human
Use variant human with the following changes
(Anuirean)
Ability Score Increase: Your Wisdom score increases by 1, and one other ability score of your choice increase by 1.
Skills: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice from among Deception, History, Insight, or Persuasion.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Anuirean and one extra language of your choice.

(Brecht)
Ability Score Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 1, and one other ability score of your choice increase by 1.
Skills: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice from among Deception, Perception, Persuasion, or Sleight of Hand.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Low Brecht, High Brecht, and one extra language of your choice.

(Khinasi)
Ability Score Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1, and one other ability score of your choice increase by 1.
Skills: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice from among Arcana, History, Insight, Medicine, or Persuasion.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Basarji and one extra language of your choice.

(Rjurik)
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 1, and one other ability score of your choice increase by 1.
Skills: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice from among Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth, or Survival.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Rjuven and one extra language of your choice.

(Vos)
Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 1, and one other ability score of your choice increase by 1.
Skills: You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice from among Animal Handling, Intimidation, Perception, or Survival.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Vos and one extra language of your choice.

Dwarf
All dwarves use the Karamhul Dwarf subrace
(Karamhul Dwarf)
Ability Score Increase: You Strength score increases by 1.
Dense Body: You have resistance against bludgeoning damage.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Karamhul and one extra language of your choice.

Elf
All elves use the Sidhelien Elf subrace
(Sidhelien Elf)
Ability Score Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Cantrip: You know one cantrip of your choice from the druid spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.
Elf Weapon Training: You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.
Nature’s Stride: Mving through non-magical difficult terrain does not cost you extra movement. A creature trying to track you through natural terrain does so with disadvantage.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Sidhelien and one other language of your choice.


Classes: They would definitely have pre-reqs and a person would be required to meet the ability pre-reqs for AT LEAST one of the subclasses in order to take a given class. I think I would just have the classes that were in core 2e plus Barbarians but allow almost all of the subclasses that have been published for said classes so far. I'm not sure how I feel about Warlocks because I'm not sure if they would fit in with Birthright. Classes will gain followers in the same way they do in 2e for their given class and Cha will generally play the same role in terms of followers.

All Classes
[sblock]Skills: Add Administration, Law, and Leadership as one of the skills your class can choose from.[/sblock]

Barbarian
[sblock]Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Berserker, Totem Warrior)
Prereqs: Str 12, Dex 9, Con 12 (from CBH)
+10% xp if Str & Con is 16 or higher
Human(Rjurik and Vos) only

(Battlerager)
Prereqs: Str 12, Dex 9, Con 12 (from CBH)
+10% xp if Str & Con is 16 or higher
Dwarf only[/sblock]

Bard
[sblock]Skills: Add Intrigue as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Lore, Valor)
Prereqs: Dex 12, Int 13, Cha 15 (from PHB)
+10% xp if Dex & Cha is 16 or higher
Human, Elf, Half Elf
Base spell list is trimmed down to Enchantment, Illusion, and Divination spells only. Magical Secrets can grab spells from other schools of magic only if the PC is a Elf, Half Elf, or blooded Human[/sblock]

Cleric
[sblock]Skills: Add Diplomacy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Avani)
Prereqs: Int 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any non-chaotic
Domain: Arcana, Knowledge, Light
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves, and Halflings

(Belinik)
Prereqs: Str 12, Con 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any evil
Domain: War
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Cuiraecen)
Prereqs: Str 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any non-lawful
Domain: Tempest, War
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Eloele)
Prereqs: Dex 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any chaotic
Domain: Trickery
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Erik)
Prereqs: Con 14, Wis 12 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any non-evil
Domain: Nature
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Haelyn)
Prereqs: Str 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any non-lawful
Domain: Life, Light, War
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Kriesha)
Prereqs: Con 12, Wis 9 (from PHB/BR rulebook)
Female only if among Vos
Alignment: Any evil
Domain: Nature, Tempest
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Laerme)
Prereqs: Wis 9, Cha 12(from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any good
Domain: Life, Light
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Moradin)
Prereqs: Wis 9(from PHB)
Alignment: Lawful good, lawful neutral, or neutral good
Domain: Knowledge, Life, War
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Dwarves

(Nesirie)
Prereqs: Wis 12(from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any non-evil
Domain: Life, Nature, Tempest
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Ruornil)
Prereqs: Int 12, Wis 9(from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any neutral
Domain: Arcana
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves

(Sera)
Prereqs: Wis 9, Cha 12(from PHB/BR rulebook)
Alignment: Any
Domain: Knowledge, Trickery
+10% xp if Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Half Elves[/sblock]

Druid
[sblock]Skills: Add Diplomacy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Land, Moon)
Prereqs: Con 14, Wis 12, Cha 15 (from mixing PHB and BR rulebook)
worships Erik if Human
Skills: Add Diplomacy as one of the skills your class can choose from.
+10% xp if Wis & Cha is 16 or higher
Humans, Elves, Halfelves[/sblock]

Fighter
[sblock]Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Champion, Battlemaster, Banneret[i.e. Purple Dragon Knight])
Prereqs: Str 9 (from PHB)
+10% xp if Str is 16 or higher
All races

(Eldritch Knight)
Prereqs: Str 9, Int 9 (from PHB mixing Mage and Fighter)
+10% xp if Str is 16 or higher
Elves, Half Elves, and blooded Humans only[/sblock]

Magician
[sblock]Skills: No changes
[/sblock][sblock]Prereqs: Dex 12, Int 12, Wis 14
+10% xp if Int & Wis is 16 or higher
Humans only
In all respects the same as a Wizard but with all the benefits of both the Divination and Illusion archetypes but all non-Illusion/non-Divination spells above 2nd level are removed from the PC's spell list. Also gains proficiency in all simple weapons, short swords, adn rapiers.[/sblock]

Paladin
[sblock]Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Devotion, Ancients, Vengeance, Crown)
Prereqs: Str 12, Con 9, Wis 13, Cha 17 (from PHB)
Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.
+10% xp if Str & Cha is 16 or higher
Must meet deity's alignment requirements
Deity: Must choose a deity from among Avani(Devotion), Belinik(Vengeance), Cuiracaen(Vengeance), Erik(Ancients), Haelyn(Devotion or Crown), Nesirie(Devotion; female only)
Humans only[/sblock]

Ranger
[sblock]Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Hunter, Beastmaster)
Prereqs: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 14, Wis 14
Skills: Add both Siegecraft and Strategy as one of the skills your class can choose from.
+10% xp if Str, Dex, & Wis is 16 or higher
Human, Elf, Half Elf[/sblock]

Rogue
[sblock]Skills: Add Intrigue as one of the skills your class can choose from.

(Thief, Assassin, Mastermind, Swashbuckler)
Prereqs: Dex 9 (from PHB)
+10% xp if Dex is 16 or higher
All races

(Arcane Trickster)
Prereqs: Dex 9, Int 9 (from PHB mixing Mage and Rogue)
+10% xp if Dex is 16 or higher
Human, Elf, Half Elf
You can only take non-Enchantment/Illusion/Divination spells if you are an Elf, Half Elf, or blooded Human[/sblock]

Wizard
[sblock]Skills: No changes
[/sblock][sblock](Abjuration)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 15 Wis (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human only

(Conjuration)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 15 Con (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human and Half Elf

(Enchantment)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 16 Cha (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human, Elf, Half Elf

(Evocation)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 16 Con (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human

(Necromancy)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 16 Wis (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human

(Transmutation)
Prereqs: 9 Int, 15 Dex (from PHB)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Human and Half Elf

(Spellsinger)
Prereqs: 13 Str, 15 Dex, 13 Con, 15 Int (from CBoE)
+10% xp if Int is 16 or higher
Half Elf and Elf[/sblock]

Multiclassing: Non-humans can choose to multiclass. The decision to multiclass must be made at 1st level and they must meet the requirements listed in the 5e PHB in addition to normal class requirements. At all times from 2nd level onwards, the classes must remain within one level of each other. I'm considering being more generous in the skills/proficiencies gained for multiclassing for non-humans since they have it rough already(possibly gain all of the armor/weapon proficiencies from both classes and for skill proficiencies get the higher starting amount of skills of the two classes and then choose from either's class skill list).
Dwarves: May be Fighter/Clerics or Fighter/Rogues
Elves: May be Fighter/Wizards, Fighter/Rogues, or Rogue/Wizards
Half Elves: May be Fighter/Wizards, Fighter/Rogues, Fighter/Clerics, Fighter/Druids, Rogue/Wizards, Rogue/Druids, and Rogue/Clerics
Halflings: May be Fighter/Rogues or Fighter/Clerics

Dualclassing: Humans use the normal multiclassing rules except they can only multiclass to one class other than the one they started with and once they multiclass then they can never gain levels again in their original class.

CREDIT: Some of the stuff on here is influenced heavily/borrowed from the conversion guides on Birthright.net. I don't remember which is from which author but Birthright.net is a big help. Here is the one I took most of the stuff from races from: http://boldpueblo.com/downloads/5e/5e-birthright-conversion.pdf

 

[CapnZapp]

The hard part, and what I want to see as an official product, is the domain rules.

They didn't really work, and really could need a v2

 

[Jessica]

..........

 

[Jessica]

..........

 

[GreenTengu]

What could any of this really have to do with Birthright?
Prerequisites for classes? Bonus experience points for having your most important attribute the highest? Restricting classes based on race? Choosing multiclass from level 1? If you aren't choosing multiclass from level 1, then everyone is dual-classing anyway as dual-classing is the model every edition since 3rd used for multiclassing.

None of this remotely has anything to do with Birthright. Its just the totally irrational and self-defeating way 2nd Edition tried to restrict what players could play. Not only do none of the restrictions make the least bit of sense once you put the smallest inkling of thought into it, they certainly are not unique or seated specifically in birthright.

Especially in terms of the attribute restrictions and bonus experience-- really, what could possibly be the point? Whether you use stat array or point buy, the system already more or less forces players into taking a particular set of attributes with very little deviation and those attributes generally meet the level needed for bonus experience anyway-- with two notable exceptions, the rather ridiculously high restriction placed on Paladins which actually precludes anyone actually playing a Paladin because it is impossible to qualify for with stat array.

The unique aspects of birthright were all the rules about ruling over domains and such. And it never seemed to me that they particularly interacted with or were reliant on all the weird wonky old school draconic restrictions and giving extra benefits for already being superior in the class you were playing. They really were mostly a stand-alone thing that could probably be more or less just lifted whole-cloth and dropped into 5E.

Honestly, instead of a conversion from Birthright, I just see a bunch of stuff you copied mindlessly out of 2E books without the least bit of understanding as to why those rules ever existed in the first place or how things in the game might have changed in the last 20 years and 3 editions to make these rules unnecessary and counter-productive.

Literally nothing you have written here gets you even the smallest step closer to making a 5E Birthright campaign setting.

 

[CapnZapp]

The unique aspects of birthright were all the rules about ruling over domains and such.

That's why I brought it up [emoji4]

 

[Jessica]

What could any of this really have to do with Birthright?
Prerequisites for classes? Bonus experience points for having your most important attribute the highest? Restricting classes based on race? Choosing multiclass from level 1? If you aren't choosing multiclass from level 1, then everyone is dual-classing anyway as dual-classing is the model every edition since 3rd used for multiclassing.

None of this remotely has anything to do with Birthright. Its just the totally irrational and self-defeating way 2nd Edition tried to restrict what players could play. Not only do none of the restrictions make the least bit of sense once you put the smallest inkling of thought into it, they certainly are not unique or seated specifically in birthright.

Especially in terms of the attribute restrictions and bonus experience-- really, what could possibly be the point? Whether you use stat array or point buy, the system already more or less forces players into taking a particular set of attributes with very little deviation and those attributes generally meet the level needed for bonus experience anyway-- with two notable exceptions, the rather ridiculously high restriction placed on Paladins which actually precludes anyone actually playing a Paladin because it is impossible to qualify for with stat array.

The unique aspects of birthright were all the rules about ruling over domains and such. And it never seemed to me that they particularly interacted with or were reliant on all the weird wonky old school draconic restrictions and giving extra benefits for already being superior in the class you were playing. They really were mostly a stand-alone thing that could probably be more or less just lifted whole-cloth and dropped into 5E.

Honestly, instead of a conversion from Birthright, I just see a bunch of stuff you copied mindlessly out of 2E books without the least bit of understanding as to why those rules ever existed in the first place or how things in the game might have changed in the last 20 years and 3 editions to make these rules unnecessary and counter-productive.

Literally nothing you have written here gets you even the smallest step closer to making a 5E Birthright campaign setting.

I was starting with the easy stuff first(character creation, what race could be what class, etc). The domain rules were their own subsystem that in all reality was pretty darn edition agnostic. They are the thing in least need of converting. I could probably use them completely as is from the book without much of a problem at all. About the only thing that really needs converting(imo) IS the character creation rules since (before you do anything else) you have to disentangle what part of the Birthright setting were restrictions stemming from second edition and what restriction were natural to the setting that would exist regardless of edition. I think it's one of the settings that is the most 2e-ish even if you were to move it out of the 2e ruleset. I was trying to capture some of that 2e-ishness while still using the 5e system.

 

[CapnZapp]

I was starting with the easy stuff first(character creation, what race could be what class, etc). The domain rules were their own subsystem that in all reality was pretty darn edition agnostic. They are the thing in least need of converting. I could probably use them completely as is from the book without much of a problem at all. About the only thing that really needs converting(imo) IS the character creation rules since (before you do anything else) you have to disentangle what part of the Birthright setting were restrictions stemming from second edition and what restriction were natural to the setting that would exist regardless of edition. I think it's one of the settings that is the most 2e-ish even if you were to move it out of the 2e ruleset. I was trying to capture some of that 2e-ishness while still using the 5e system.

To be honest, I would probably start with "create characters per the 5e rules", providing a stable foundation; not worrying too much how this lets in Tiefling Rogues or Dragonborn Paladins into Cerilia. Basically, the play groups that enjoy a "pure" experience will only choose the races and classes they associate with the campaign world anyway.

Then I'd ask myself: what sets Birthright apart from "vanilla D&D" as expressed by 5th edition?

Immediately, I'd respond:
- bloodlines, but to be brutally honest: isn't a player character with class and levels already a unique snowflake compared to the general rabble? I mean, bloodlines as a means to be even more OMGWTFBBQ superior than the rest of the population isn't actually adding anything.

So I would ask myself: can't you simply say that any classed and levelled character radiates Regency?

- Monster rulers
I'd say 5th edition is a pretty good fit for Birthright's world. Monsters as unique figures of legend are just that: legendary but not super-godly like high-level figures tended to become in previous editions. You aren't a godly super-being all by yourself, you need armies. Bounded accuracy to the rescue! The game already have legendary actions. The next step is domain actions.

- domain rules
Here I would want an updated ruleset that actually makes sense. I always had that nagging feeling the original AD&D domain rules was good for dicking around in the world, but not good for actual use. A curiosity. A toy. I would put domains version 2 highest on my list, apart from a campaign guide to reintroduce today's gamers to the world, of course.

 

[GreenTengu]

I was starting with the easy stuff first(character creation, what race could be what class, etc). The domain rules were their own subsystem that in all reality was pretty darn edition agnostic. They are the thing in least need of converting. I could probably use them completely as is from the book without much of a problem at all. About the only thing that really needs converting(imo) IS the character creation rules since (before you do anything else) you have to disentangle what part of the Birthright setting were restrictions stemming from second edition and what restriction were natural to the setting that would exist regardless of edition. I think it's one of the settings that is the most 2e-ish even if you were to move it out of the 2e ruleset. I was trying to capture some of that 2e-ishness while still using the 5e system.

I don't know that any of the restrictions were there simply because it was Birthright, but rather they were simply the wonky way 2nd edition tried to balance things.

I don't see anything about the setting falling apart simply because there would be Elven or Dwarven orders of holy warriors that are basically "Paladins" of sorts. I don't think it was any sort of unbreakable central theme that there couldn't be any such thing as a Rogue/Cleric-- especially since Rogues are conceptually a considerably larger category than "Thieves" ever were.
And certainly it is not a central pillar of the setting that Halflings can not imaginably use magic and if any Halfling learned to be a Wizard, the whole setting would fall to pieces.

They weren't restriction that were necessary for the setting or concept to function, they were restriction that were there because they were the ones that the people who wrote 2nd edition arbitrarily decided to hold over from 1st edition and very, very few of the restrictions were ever justified. (Honestly, the Bard, Paladin and Ranger being human & half-elf only had a lot more to do with them being super classes that were just flat out better than all others-- which is no longer true in later editions.)

Honestly, the thing to get across with Birthright would be the domain management aspects of it. And, really, even then since a few things have been better developed in later editions, I could certainly imagine these concepts going deeper. For instance, if I were developing them now I am pretty sure I would include rules for "orc", "goblinoid" and "draconic" domains with their own alterations to the basic rules and own troop sorts since at least the first two were things that really should have existed in that setting and the third would be quite popular. Even if they were primarily meant to be run by the DM, it would give the world more depth if the villain forces had specific rules they were playing by and you could chart their activities on your game map and disrupt them or engage them just like other domains.

Beyond that... Bloodline would more or less replace background I would have to imagine.

 

[Jessica]

What was the point in removing the title and posts from this thread, [MENTION=6796107]Zeuel[/MENTION]?

I was in a bad place last night. I had just been physically assaulted by my brother while my parents watched (and then proceeded to blame me for it) and then coming here and seeing just horribly negative crap just made me want to say "f*** it!" and delete it all. But I couldn't find a delete button. So I think I'll post what I have so far since I was working on it away from EN world last night after I cooled down.