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Bits and Pieces on Adventure Design

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Whilst revisiting Keep on the Borderlands, I came across this interesting passage:

The DM is also the designer of the situations and must bear in mind the abilities of his or her players. It is the job of the DM to see that the situations and characters balance. If things are too difficult, the players will become discouraged; too easy and they will become bored. Is it possible for a good player to win, yet still be a challenge and a risk in doing so? Is the amount of treasure gained equal to the danger of trying to get it? As DM, much satisfaction comes from watching players overcome a difficult situation. But they should do it on their own! (Keep on the Borderlands by Gary Gygax, page 4)

I was particularly interested in the first part of the paragraph, where Gary very much set out a philosophy of balancing adventures against the characters - something that is at odds with the "status quo" design philosophy which I hear some espouse.

Of course, the original D&D, with its "megadungeons", performs a self-balancing act: the players discover the level of the dungoen where their characters are comfortable adventuring and adventure there. Of course, this requires the DM to have paid attention to the monster levels and not placed Type VI demons in a level 1 room!

At present, it seems very likely that when my 4E HPE campaign finishes at the end of this year, it will be replaced by a AD&D campaign in the lands of the Frost Barbarians. So, I've been poring over the old D&D modules I have, and finding some rather interesting advice, particularly in some very old supplements I've only recently acquired.

Consider this text from the Monster & Treasure Assortment:
It should be noted that just as a dungeon level should have monsters in only 20% or so of the available rooms and chambers, about 20% of the monsters should have no treasure whatsoever.

Where does this 20% figure come from? In oD&D and both early Basic D&D sets, it's a 2 in 6 chance that a monster is in each room, and a 3 in 6 chance that the monster has treasure. AD&D doesn't muck about with a lot of "basic" rules for stocking dungeons, but the random dungeon generator gives a 25% chance for a room having a monster in it... perhaps the 20% comes from there. It is a lot of "empty" space to wander through. (It should be noted that the random generator actually was first given in The Strategic Review in 1975, with the same probabilities).

Hmm - the "Treasure is Contained In" and "Guarded In" tables of the DMG random system aren't in the original TSR article... but they are in the Monster & Treasure Assortment. (My copy is a later printing, so were they included in the early copies and from thence made their way to the DMG? I suspect that is the case...)

Cheers!
 

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That's how I took it first time round and it kind of baffles me why there seems to be a need to link early-ish D&D with some sort of true successor. Out of the box various versions play very differently and it maybe gets lost that if 3.5 and 4 had no precursors at all they'd probably be highly rated as standalone games.
 

I like going back and re-reading older materials, particularly in light of my own experiences at the time - I didn't own every module, every accessory, and every issue of The Dragon back in the day (nor do I now, for that matter), so it's a process of discovery. Right now I'm poring over one of Mr Gygax's "Sorcerer's Scrolls" on the nature of the relationship between books and roleplaying games from TD in '79.

I think it's important while doing so to remember that inconsistencies abound - this was a pastime literally in the chaotic throes of creating itself -and to avoid over-interpreting the language used. Frex, to understand how the early authors intended concepts like 'balancing adventures to characters' to be taken, it's useful to look at how they were implemented in both products and actual play reports.

Consider 'balancing' encounters in light of the Moathouse, or the Hall of the Fire Giant King, or Tegel Manor, all of which were very popular back in the day and all of which could seal the adventurers' fate within minutes.

A lot of water's passed under many bridges between then and now - putting quotations like the one cited in the original post in context require a bit of forensic textual analysis or one can draw errant conclusions.
 

Whilst revisiting Where does this 20% figure come from? In oD&D and both early Basic D&D sets, it's a 2 in 6 chance that a monster is in each room, and a 3 in 6 chance that the monster has treasure. AD&D doesn't muck about with a lot of "basic" rules for stocking dungeons, but the random dungeon generator gives a 25% chance for a room having a monster in it... perhaps the 20% comes from there. It is a lot of "empty" space to wander through. (It should be noted that the random generator actually was first given in The Strategic Review in 1975, with the same probabilities).


The dungeon generation tables are only guidelines and pretty basic. They are a good starting point, but the authors don't explain why they are designed as they are. However, you don't really need to know why the tables are what they are in the books. But I do hold refs need to know what their tables mean for them when used to run their games.

IMHO the quoted rules come down to trying to balance treasure layout with monster challenges by overall dungeon level and PC party level. Monster chance is a kind of "challenging creature" population density. Treasure chance is like average wealth density. Further measures can be made like the 80/20 ratio for wealth guarded or unguarded - usually by creatures.
 

my take from what Merric posted is that Gary had a sense of what he considered balanced.

Neither too easy, nor too hard. Not too much treasure, nor too much XP.

Given one rant he wrote in The Strategic Review (#7 I believe, thanks Dragon Archive CD), he was not happy that players had high level PCs in a game he indicated should have slower advancement (and since everybody started after he did, they should all be lower level than his campaigns).

I'm not sure what errant conclusions shaman is concerned about.
 

Whilst revisiting Keep on the Borderlands, I came across this interesting passage:

...
At present, it seems very likely that when my 4E HPE campaign finishes at the end of this year, it will be replaced by a AD&D campaign in the lands of the Frost Barbarians. ...

Your DMing? It was your idea? Care to say more?
 


Consider 'balancing' encounters in light of the Moathouse, or the Hall of the Fire Giant King, or Tegel Manor, all of which were very popular back in the day and all of which could seal the adventurers' fate within minutes.

I think the key to understanding balance in the context of those adventures is that you can have balanced encounters (sometimes very challenging, but still individually winnable for a party of expected level) even if they take place in the context of an adventure in which an unwise decision can generate an unbalanced (i.e. un-winnable) result.

Most commonly, that means that the PCs can pick off individual encounters when played carefully, but had better retreat if they alert the whole complex. More esoterically, it requires that the PCs have a healthy respect for the local amphibious wildlife...

-KS
 

That's how I took it first time round and it kind of baffles me why there seems to be a need to link early-ish D&D with some sort of true successor. Out of the box various versions play very differently and it maybe gets lost that if 3.5 and 4 had no precursors at all they'd probably be highly rated as standalone games.
However, for better or worse they do have precursors; and quite naturally those precursors set a series of expectations that the later versions are being held to.

Lanefan
 

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