Bizarre Tactics & Combos

Vaxalon · Dec 4, 2002

Dragons don't lair out in the middle of the wilderness. They choose a place a bit more private, like a cave or ruined castle.

Normal animals would NEVER enter a place like that.

Hypersmurf · Dec 4, 2002

I would allow an illusion of a torch, if the area was big enough to encompass the room, to include illusionary reflections off of objects in the room. The caster would have to know what the room was like beforehand, however.

Yup.

Watch a flashlight when you turn it on in a brightly lit room.

The bulb changes colour. That's about it. A Silent Image could handle that with no problem.

Now turn it on in pitch blackness. It illuminates the room. Silent Image can't do that.

-Hyp.

Nail · Dec 4, 2002

Vaxalon said:
Dragons don't lair out in the middle of the wilderness. They choose a place a bit more private, like a cave or ruined castle.

Normal animals would NEVER enter a place like that.

Oh, I dunno: seems like rats are every where, and surely toads are not out-of-place in a swamp (where greens and blacks like to hang out).

incognito · Dec 4, 2002

Hey VAX,

Dragons don't lair out in the middle of the wilderness. They choose a place a bit more private, like a cave or ruined castle.

No offence, but that's one DM's opinion (yours); This dragon had a 'lair' that was not completely open, but being in a swamp, had plenty of insects, worms, and other squimry things writhing around. What's one more toad?

YMMV

but if it was a cave, I assume a bat, or other subterranean dweller should not unduly alert a dragon - you do see that dragons are still a part of an wilderness eco system, unless you have them lodged in a civilized layer, right?

Nail · Dec 4, 2002

Hypersmurf said:
Yup.

Watch a flashlight when you turn it on in a brightly lit room.

The bulb changes colour. That's about it. A Silent Image could handle that with no problem.

Now turn it on in pitch blackness. It illuminates the room. Silent Image can't do that.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree here, but:

Imagine I carve a flashlight from wood, and paint the end of it so that it appears it's "on". Now I have it in my hand as I walk into a lit room. You are at the other end of the room, and you notice me.

You would look at my fake, and (probably) think: "Oh, he's got a flashlight, but it's off."

Now, I point the flashlight directly at you; you now see the end I've painted to appear as if it's on. (a bright, cheery yellow, I might add) You're still quite a distance away from me, in a brightly lit room. Would you ever be fooled into thinking it was on?

Of course not.

....and it gets even worse if the room was not well illuminated. ....and even worse if this "painting" moves to mimic a flame on the end of a torch or candle. Such a thing might look like a bundle of half-dead red eels squirming on the end of a wooden spoon, but I doubt it would ever be mistaken for a torch.

Hypersmurf · Dec 4, 2002

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree here...

Agree to disagree it is.

Bright cheery yellow might not work, but I think a good enough painter could do the job.

In a brightly lit room only, but even so.

-Hyp.

Vaxalon · Dec 4, 2002

That would be fine, except that an illusion doesn't work like a fake object.

If you had an illusionary torch floating in a void, it would be indistinguishable from a real one, if you failed your save.

Nail · Dec 4, 2002

Maybe cheery yellow with a burnt orange center?

Vaxalon said:
If you had an illusionary torch floating in a void, it would be indistinguishable from a real one, if you failed your save.

Uh, what? .....okay, let's put it into game terms.

I'm arguing that there is a "circumstance" bonus on said save against this mysterious, floating, figment of a flashlight. A large bonus (possibly larger with that floating bit you inserted, Vax). Ole Hyper here is (essentially) arguing that there would not be a circumstance bonus.

Agreed on positions?

Hypersmurf · Dec 4, 2002

I'm arguing that there is a "circumstance" bonus on said save against this mysterious, floating, figment of a flashlight. A large bonus (possibly larger with that floating bit you inserted, Vax). Ole Hyper here is (essentially) arguing that there would not be a circumstance bonus.

Hmm.

No, I'll agree that having a 'light source' included in your illusion is a Bad Idea, and that there would be a bonus to the save.

However, I maintain that when the ambient light is bright enough, that bonus would be a small one.

As soon as there is any sort of dimness in the surrounding light, that bonus would become far more substantial. In anything even vaguely approaching darkness, I wouldn't require a save at all.

-Hyp.