[Black Company] Want a different combat.

[donbaloo]

So I've finally gotten my Black Company book and I'm very delighted with it. Now for the part where I figure out a combat system that I really like with it. I want to drop in a combat system where Armor provides damage resistance, combat skill is reflected in your bonuses to hit your opponent and your bonuses to avoid being hit, no huge pools of hitpoints but instead some type of wounds system maybe. Who else has done this and is my best bet simply in purchasing Unearthed Arcana and plopping in the alternate rules it offers? Is there another supplement or setting that already has combat set up in the way I'm looking to do it that I would be better off getting? I'm thinking that if the only reason I'm purchasing UA is for those few alternate rules, maybe there's another book that I could get instead that already has similar combat rules and that would offer me another game as well. Ideas?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, just having a conversation with Takyris it sounds like Conan might be for you.

Armor is DR, Class Defense and Parry bonuses (big strong guys favor parry), etc.

Personally I favor HP with Massive Damage Threshold saves over VP/WP. VP/WP is interesting, but it throws off things like armor as DR (as it only applies to WP) and poison (only is a threat to mooks or on criticals). BCCS has a very light MDT system, I think. If you set MDT at CON and leave it there, and set the save DC to 10 + 1/2 Damage then you'll get people dropping pretty fast when they get hit hard.

You could go with a damage save system, but then you're getting into a whole different sort of game, I think. All KINDS of things need to be reworked then.

--fje

 

[GlassJaw]

I know people are all Black Company in here but it didn't really do it for me. The Conan book is far superior IMO.

I'm working on a system now that combines the Dodge/Parry and armor as DR rules from Conan, the classes and AP rules from Grim Tales, and a modified version of the VP/WP system from Star Wars. So far it's looking pretty nice and has everything I want in a combat system.

As far as UA goes, I don't know if I find it all that useful. It has some decent ideas but most of the variants can be found in other systems...and done better. The armor as DR system in UA basically splits the AC bonus into half AC bonus, half DR. Not what I was looking for. The VP/WP system is essentially the same as Star Wars but the SW defense and DR armor system is better.

 

[donbaloo]

As far as UA goes, I don't know if I find it all that useful. It has some decent ideas but most of the variants can be found in other systems...and done better.

Okay, so that's getting to the root of my question then. I should look to another system to fill this gap. Sounds like you and HeapThaumaturgist are both offering up Conan. I've never actually seen it on shelves so which edition, title, should aim at picking up?

BCCS has a very light MDT system, I think. If you set MDT at CON and leave it there, and set the save DC to 10 + 1/2 Damage then you'll get people dropping pretty fast when they get hit hard.

That's my initial impression as well. Granted, I've not had the opportunity to implement the rules yet but in reading over them it just seemed that MDTs wouldn't come into play a great deal, especially as character level increases. Your suggestion would fix that as long as they weren't always making the fort save. I'd really like to do away with the whole notion of Alive 'n' Feisty or Dying simplifications in combat. Something with at least slightly more gradations, where your efforts become diminishing as wounds increase.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I like BCCS for "take'n'run" aspects of it. The equipments section ... nice nice. I like expanding mastercrafts, and I've adapted it to my games. I like the poisons and the diseases (had a pretty fun game with some assassins using curare and malaria ... and an adventure surrounding trying to find some sweet wormword to process into a treatment). I've adapted the magic system to one game and, while cool, it'll take a whole lot of work before it's really "mine" so I won't say that, right out the door, that was as useful as I wanted it.

The classes? Combat variants? Naaaah. Wasn't up my alley either.

--fje

 

[Henry]

Old One from these forums has taken Grim Tales and mixed it with Black Company's Spell system to very good effect. The only problem you may have is - if you don't use hit points or vitality or something similar, you will have to find another way to calculate spell drain. You may even want to check out Blue Rose RPG by Green Ronin as an alternate way of handling spells and damage, and "wound levels." If you have Mutants and masterminds, it's similar, but a less super-heroic.

 

[swrushing]

Well, given what you are looking for, you could do pretty fine looking up the grim'n'gritty rules on the google and looking at them. they are free and should do a lot of what you want.

So I've finally gotten my Black Company book and I'm very delighted with it. Now for the part where I figure out a combat system that I really like with it. I want to drop in a combat system where Armor provides damage resistance, combat skill is reflected in your bonuses to hit your opponent and your bonuses to avoid being hit, no huge pools of hitpoints but instead some type of wounds system maybe. Who else has done this and is my best bet simply in purchasing Unearthed Arcana and plopping in the alternate rules it offers? Is there another supplement or setting that already has combat set up in the way I'm looking to do it that I would be better off getting? I'm thinking that if the only reason I'm purchasing UA is for those few alternate rules, maybe there's another book that I could get instead that already has similar combat rules and that would offer me another game as well. Ideas?

 

[boredgremlin]

that's my initial impression as well. Granted, I've not had the opportunity to implement the rules yet but in reading over them it just seemed that MDTs wouldn't come into play a great deal, especially as character level increases. Your suggestion would fix that as long as they weren't always making the fort save. I'd really like to do away with the whole notion of Alive 'n' Feisty or Dying simplifications in combat. Something with at least slightly more gradations, where your efforts become diminishing as wounds increase.

You could allways look at white wolfs games. I think you get like 10 Hp and every pt of damage you take gives you penalties to all your skills and some of your abilities, so for instance if your unhurt and take 3 pts of damage you wind up with a -3 penalty on attacks rolls and most of your skills until you heal. It realistically covers the effects of being wounded, but the effects of being shot or stabbed in the chest are rarely heroic. Armor works as DR, and you can make a saving throw to ignore some damage. Its still pretty brutal though. One good hit from even a normal guy can kill or cripple an unarmed man. Its an interesting system to look at if you want to build on an idea though. Especially if you want a gritty system where combat is allways dangerous.

 

[donbaloo]

Okay, good ideas. I've never heard of the "grim 'n' gritty" rules, I'll give a search for it. Thanks for the suggestions folks. Take care...

 

[Khorod]

Well, I'll just add my voice to Conan. It is a much more streamlined system and its easier to read given that mass combat stuff is not trickled everywhere. I mostly use BCCS for idea-mining.

There are a number of complicated and interesting ideas in BCCS that Conan handles much easier. For example, the Fog of Battle effects in BCCS are replaced in Conan with the simple idea that everyone can move, attack, and move each round. It keeps things moving, and you don't have to make a few rolls every round to find out.

However, Conan is also riddled with a very Conan-esque set of themes. If that is at odds with your campaign, it might be a little hard to ignore.

Overall, I never intended to buy Conan, until I had BCCS and realized just how good Conan was.