When Combat Isn't Always *About* Combat

I now return us to our regularly scheduled thread.

One time I had combat in a sea cave. The tide would come crashing back and everyone, players and enemies alike, had to make reflex not to fall over. That was a cool addition to the scene that made it feel really cinematic. This one worked well because it was a simple reflex or fall so it didnt impact things in any unusual way other than making footing not sure during the combat.
I think you've laid out everything quite fairly~

And also, that is a really cool idea. I like the idea of having there be moments of unsure footing in combat that can affect both the PCs and the enemies. Could be that the advantageous positioning is the most treacherous in the way that it also requires rolls not to slip and fall.
 

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I think you've laid out everything quite fairly~

And also, that is a really cool idea. I like the idea of having there be moments of unsure footing in combat that can affect both the PCs and the enemies. Could be that the advantageous positioning is the most treacherous in the way that it also requires rolls not to slip and fall.
What really makes it work is the logical sense. It's not just declaring unsure footing combat. It's fighting in a sea cave as high tide rolls in. Like the hot potato idol situation is everyone focused on securing an important item. Which is another interesting question to ask, should it be a sub-system, or should it be a unique situation? Is there a point the sub-system because less unique and thus routine, ruining the desire to spice up the combat?

As a GM, I like making these things up to suit whats happening and give the usual a jack in the box. A game designer and/or adventure writer might be looking at it from more of a universal application perspective. Like, is this now a tool for the kit instead of just a singular opportunity?
 

I always liked the, Enemy of my Enemy fight. You may have started combat with a group of bandits of another adventuring party, but suddenly a horde of skeletons or goblins comes and attacks all of you. Now you suddenly need to shift gears and maybe aid the other group of simply stay away from them and focus on the new threat for a while.
 


Fighting on horseback.

Fighting in tight spaces like a closet.

Deprived of weaponry & fighting unarmed.

Underwater knife-fight.
Does anyone remember the show Human Target? Based on the DC comic, one of stars was Watchmen's Rorshach.

The highlight for me was almost every fight was like the above (aside from horseback).
 

What about those scenes where one character has certain information and they 'aint spillin, so another character resorts to violence to get them to talk?

Action movies tend to showcase these kinds of moments. Fighting to get or protect information?
 


What about those scenes where one character has certain information and they 'aint spillin, so another character resorts to violence to get them to talk?

Action movies tend to showcase these kinds of moments. Fighting to get or protect information?
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One time I had combat in a sea cave. The tide would come crashing back and everyone, players and enemies alike, had to make reflex not to fall over.
Hellblade 2 uses waves to wash the PC away, albeit not in combat. More spectacularly, a raging fire giant will burn the PC to a cinder if she's not behind cover when the fire blows in.

Skyrim has a more subdued take: in the demiplane of Apocrypha, the darkness causes pain (possibly from the lack of visual information - it's a plane of secret knowledge). So one scene asks you to travel from light source to light source (funny, Hellblade 2 does this as well!) to reach your opponents with full health. The opponents don't suffer the damage . . . let's say it's because they can see in the dark and therefore don't suffer knowledge loss.

I guess you could say these battles are about relocating instead of fighting.
 

Lancer is really good about that, to the point where "Mission Objectives" are built into the encounter design section. While the appeal of "mission objectives" varies from group to group, in my experience, the vast majority of "average" players enjoy them.

Some groups I've played in are even of the opinion that any combat without an objective is a waste of time. In their opinion, an encounter that consists of a hungry monster trying to eat the party is meaningless filler that's wasting everyone's time. Especially in more modern systems where healing is free and relatively quick.

I'm not quite that extreme, but I think that extreme opinion can point at some useful advice. When GMing, you should consider the purpose of every combat encounter. It's fine if the purpose is something simple like to establish that the Forest of Nightmares is a dangerous place, but it shouldn't be just because you have to keep your players entertained for 5 hours.

In my experience, two very different groups tend to dislike objective-heavy combat; that's what I meant above about "average" players enjoying them. Players who invest heavily into character builds can be upset that their build doesn't get to do the things it was designed for. If half of your turns are spent running away or throwing a mcguffin, you'll have less time to use that sweet combination of feats you found. Most players don't treat their character build like a trading card game deck though, and enjoy the variety.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, the real creative, narrative types can get frustrated as well. The kinds of people who swear that if you don't like FATE, it's because you're doing it wrong. To them, if a scene is about breaking an npc out of prison, for example, why are we adding things like tactical movement and action economy by framing it as a combat? I want to do something cool like bounce the mcguffin off the wall so I can swing a rope across a chasm and catch the mcguffin on the other side. But because we're breaking my turn into discrete actions, I can't do that. Again though, most players like combat, so this isn't an issue.




Sorry for the long post, but mission objectives are something I do a lot, so I also want to list a few of the objectives that have worked well for me.
  • Capture the flag: The players need to retrieve some item, and bring it back to some safe zone or extraction point. One time, I added a similar objective for the enemies, so a few players had to play defense, just like real ctf. It was fun in the moment, but I think it just adds too much overall.
  • Puzzles: Occasionally I used to throw old-fashioned block puzzles or tile puzzles at the players. They weren't super engaging until I added combat elements simultaneous to the puzzles. A boss whose AC drops when blocks are pushed to the right position, or an enemy spawner that only turns off when colored gems are matched to their matching pillars. These have been some of my most memorable combats.
  • Escort Missions: This only works if you have an npc the party actually likes. If you do though, adding enemies who don't care about the party and only want to kill/kidnap this npc leads to fun combats.
  • Assassination: Like an escort mission in reverse, the party needs to kill/kidnap one specific target, and doesn't care about the mooks except in so far as they're blocking the way to the target. Sometimes the party needs to kill someone and leave before being overwhelmed, but a "Command Ship" fight, where all enemies stop fighting once the target is killed is fun too.
  • Multi-Team: aco175 mentioned something similar, but if you have two or more distinct groups of enemies, the players will feel really smart if they get one group to attack the other.
  • Auto-scroller: A hazard (spreading fire, collapsing building, poison gas cloud, etc) spreads across the battlefield, and the party needs to avoid this hazard while fighting off enemies. Whether or not the enemies are immune to this hazard can change up the feel of the fight a lot.
  • Bridge/Gate guard: Not sure if this really counts, but a lot of fights in rpgs boil down to "we want to get to <place> but the enemy doesn't want us to." In fights like these, the party could easily disengage and run away once on the other side. This only feels like a victory though if it's clear that killing every enemy is unfeasible, like if reinforcements are endless or something.
 

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