Black Diamond Games Blog - An Experiment

[Festivus]

I hesitated to post this (for fear of edition warring) but I thought it rather interesting. This popped up on Facebook for me a little while ago and I thought I would share it.

If they had this deal at my FLGS and I didn't own Pathfinder I would take the deal in light of the Rules Compendium being out and having an active DDI subscription.

Our Little RPG Experiment

I suspect this is impossible to discuss without devolving into edition warring, but things I pulled out of this:

1. Given an opportunity to dump your 4E PHB and get a deal on it, given the recent release of the Rules Compendium, a person might just take the deal.

2. Pathfinder is working on a basic intro game (read in one of the comments).

 

[Wicht]

The blurb about a Paizo intro-box is very encouraging.

 

[jonesy]

There's a thread about the Pathfinder basic here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/pathfinder-rpg-discussion/292400-there-any-plans-pathfinder-basic.html

 

[Treebore]

Definitely interesting results. Like they say, still no proof that 4e isn't still the main RPG on the market, but I think it does show WOTC and the D&D brand certainly do not have a strangle hold on the market either. Meaning, specifically, the fantasy RPG segment of it.

I also find it funny Black Diamond, and apparently other Gaming stores, still think Paizo's subscription model by passes them more than the HUGE discounts offered on Amazon and other on line stores. Due to shipping, the only thing Paizo offers that is "better" is the free PDF, which is why I do subscribe, but if I didn't I would still buy from Amazon and other on line discount sellers before I would buy from my LGS. Even if it wasn't an hour away. I buy so many RPG books I cannot ignore the savings I have by buying on line. Last year, just doing a quick tally, I saved myself over $600 by buying on line versus at the LGS. I will not ignore that kind of savings. If I take into account EVERYTHING I buy on line versus in ANY local store, I have saved myself many thousands of dollars. Only the foolish would ignore such saving opportunities when they have them at their finger tips, and delivered to their door.

 

[AngryMojo]

I also think that a good chunk of the results might be based on price point. If I didn't already own the book, and somebody offered me a trade-in of my 4e PhB for 50% off Pathfinder, I'd take it in a second, if for no other reason than the high price tag on the Pathfinder core rulebook. Note that I don't play Pathfinder at all. It happens to be that my PhB is rather worn from use at this point, and I'm thinking about buying a new one that's not ready to fall apart anyway.

 

[Gareman]

Only the foolish would ignore such saving opportunities when they have them at their finger tips, and delivered to their door.

Which is why the closest game store to YOU is an hour away.

 

[Cor_Malek]

Not very surprising in light of thread I've read here, on EnWorld. OP asked in it 3.X players why didn't they transition to Pathfinder, and bulk of responses was "yeah, they changed stuff... but not enough to warrant buying new core". This trade off - if not nullified - made this argument less relevant. The price discrepancy... I don't know. Pathfinder core is PHB I+DMG I, so I'm a bit surprised they put "=" between it's and PHB's cost.

What I found interesting was that even after two years, there were players who still wanted "in" on 4e but waited for some kind of nudge, and apparently it didn't have to be a particularly strong one.

All in all, sweet action, that possibly allowed transitions for some. That said, cold bastard that I am - if it was near me, I'd trade in 3.X for second copy of Pathfinder in no time, and think what to do with my cheap copy later Backup? Present? Sell on Ebay and buy some PF or even 4e books?

 

[Treebore]

Which is why the closest game store to YOU is an hour away.

No, the reason the LGS is a hour away is I live in the middle of no where. I am 30 miles away from the nearest "big town".

Google Maps

So the real reason I am personally that far away is my population density is not high enough to support an LGS.

Still, even when I lived in Charleston, SC, I stopped buying my RPG books from them because I spent an average of $2,400 a year on RPG stuff even when I lived there. There was a 4 year period where I spent way less due to economic down turns, but in the last year I have averaged $200 per month, AFTER my shopping around and finding the best discounted prices.

So yeah, an LGS would love to have me as a customer, but they won't, simply because they won't give me similar discounted prices. The way the pricing tiers work they probably cannot afford to. So I wouldn't buy at my LGS even if it was next door, simply because I cannot ignore the fact that I save myself about $600 a year getting stuff on line.

So LGS' are not being hurt by Paizo and their subscription model, they are being killed because we can save so much by shopping on line instead.

I'll go into that store and buy the occasional comics, and occasionally I find he has some old products for sale that I will buy, but as for his new products? Nope. I buy those all on line, and I do not regret it. It is my responsibility to minimize the financial impact of my hobby on my family, and I take that very seriously. Just like I take stretching every dollar we have as far as possible seriously, and like I mentioned earlier my and my wife's efforts save us thousands every single year by shopping on line instead of in local stores. Just off the top of my head I know that shopping on line has saved us over $5,000 in just the last 5 months compared to what we would have paid for sale prices at our local stores.

So its internet savings that are killing LGS', not Paizo's subscription plan.

 

[DEFCON 1]

These realizations that Black Diamond came to are not really that surprising. If you were a 3.5 player who had not already made the move to 4E by this point... it shows you pretty much wanted to stay with that type of game. Thus, your only option for the exchange would be Pathfinder. Similarly... if you were a 4E player who just "wasn't feeling it" with that game, odds are you had been a 3.5 player previously and made the switch when 4E came out. Thus, you already owned the 3.5 books and your only choice for the exchange again would be Pathfinder.

When you consider the previous sales for all three of these books, let's just say (pulling numbers out of my ass for ease of math) that in total, 50% have been 3.5, 40% have been 4E, and 10% have been Pathfinder. That means of the total number of books that could be exchanged by Black Diamond's offer... 9 out of 10 of them will be 3.5 or 4E books. And as its shown that most of these exchanges would go towards Pathfinder... it's not surprising at all the results Black Diamond got.

And to take it even further... if you did make the switch to Pathfinder previously... it means you wanted to stay and play in the d20 mechanics realm. Which means that if you eventually decided that Pathfinder wasn't the game for you... odds are you'd go back to playing 3.5, not jump to 4E. And in this case... you're probably be more inclined to just hang onto your Pathfinder book and not exchange it, because you most likely already owned all the 3.5 books you'd need and you wouldn't care about buying 4E.

So all in all... if Black Diamond maybe exchanged one Pathfinder book for every twenty 3.5 or 4E books, it wouldn't shock me a bit. But it also wouldn't necessarily mean anything substantial in terms of the quality of the three games.

 

[MrMyth]

I also think that a good chunk of the results might be based on price point. If I didn't already own the book, and somebody offered me a trade-in of my 4e PhB for 50% off Pathfinder, I'd take it in a second, if for no other reason than the high price tag on the Pathfinder core rulebook.

Yeah, I think this is likely part of it. Trading in a $35 book for $25 off Pathfinder is simply a much better deal than trading in a $50 book for $10 or $17 off a Rules Compendium or PHB.