johnsemlak
First Post
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/news...=article&sid=1542&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Anybody looking forward to this?
Anybody looking forward to this?
Blackmoor d20
- Thread starter johnsemlak
- Start date
National Acrobat
First Post
I am. I've got that old nostalgic feeling going on...
I've only heard a little bit about Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign over the years. To me, Blackmoor was always that place way up north on the old Greyhawk map near the Land of Black Ice. Later I found out it was Dave's old campaign around the time that Gygax was working on Greyhawk. Poking around, you can find tons of back stories and tidbits about Greyhawk, but very little about Blackmoor. Can anyone fill me in on what were some of the things that came out of the campaign?
kengar
First Post
Quinn said:
Not so much "out of the campaign" but here are a couple links you might find interesting.
Blackmoor Map
Blackmoor pdf
(From Dave Arneson's site.)
johnsemlak
First Post
With Blackmoor d20 coming, can someone well versed in WoG canon clarify how people generally regard Blackmoor as a part of Oerth?
I don't think WoG people generally regard Blackmoor as part of Oerth.
They see the Blackmoor upon the map, and understand that Gary put a place on his world where Blackmoor could exist, but that Blackmoor is in actuality its own setting - not tied to Mystara, Greyhawk or any other published world.
Cheers!
They see the Blackmoor upon the map, and understand that Gary put a place on his world where Blackmoor could exist, but that Blackmoor is in actuality its own setting - not tied to Mystara, Greyhawk or any other published world.
Cheers!
I've probably got some details wrong, but from what I recall, here are some features of Blackmoor from the First Fantasy Campaign era:
- The Egg of Coot. What the Egg actually is is a bit of a mystery, but whatever it is it seems to be interested in power, vandalism, making new spells and maybe even gaming at a 1:1 scale. The Egg of Coot is also the name of the realm of the Egg, where it lives. It's armies lay siege to Blackmoor occasionally.
- Blackmoor is also the name of Blackmoor town and castle. Blackmoor Castle is haunted, and the dungeons below have such features as demonic statues, the "Orcian Way" and the vampire Sir Fang. Oh yeah, and elves with holy water fire hoses guard the entrances...it's that kind of setting.
- The Blue Rider, and his somewhat supernatural horse and suit of armour which were responsible for most of his heroics.
- Mello the hobbit^H^H^H^H^H^Hhalfling, who was rather tall and a bit of a hero. Had a house at a crossroads some way from Blackmoor town IIRC. Friend of the Blue Rider or the Great Svenny?
- The Ran of Ah-Foo. I think he leads - and breeds dragons in? - the Duchy of Ten.
- The Comeback Inn. It's in Blackmoor town, and it's a magical inn that cannot be left unless someone pulls you out the door from the outside. IIRC, time doesn't pass inside the inn, and it magically repairs and cleans itself, mends and washes sheets and floors etc.
- Marfeldt, a barbarian and the "last anarchist". Unpredictable and uncontrollable, thoroughly chaotic. Has slaughtered armies and civilians alike, alternating between playing the patriotic hero and the genocidal blackguard. Has a strangely charming effect on those in his presence.
- The Great Svenny was another hero of Blackmoor. I think he is a paladin who's getting old and has emerged from dungeons covered in his own blood and those of monsters a few too many times, and is thinking of retiring.
- The Duchy of the Peaks and the Regent of the Mines are other realms. I think the Regent of the Mines is a dwarven realm.
- The SS Beagle, a crashed spaceship and it's survivors. The crew set up a high-tech settlement at the location of the crash, which is known to Blackmoorians as the City of the Gods.
- The Tower of Booh. Home of halflings?
- There was some place full of black lotuses, and I think a nation of lotus-eater types.
- The Wizard of the Woods. A wizard, who lives in the woods and gets up to stuff, near Blackmoor town.
- The Froggies and the Temple of the Frog. They're led by a renegade from the Beagle, and thus have access to a smallish stash of technology including laser guns and power armour.
Mystaros
First Post
Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and Mystara
Originally, when first published in the "First Fantasy Campaign" (published in 1980, the same year the World of Greyhawk Gazetteer was released) Blackmoor was set in the City State world of Judges Guild. The City State maps were 5 miles her hex; thus, the Blackmoor map, at 10 miles per hex, was the size of any four Judges Guild maps. The lower left-hand quarter of the Blackmoor map was designed to just north of the Campaign Map 3: "Valley of the Ancients" map from the City State setting. (Note that later TSR left in the reference to the "Valley of the Ancients" in the DA1 Blackmoor setting map! The nature of the valley was, of course, altered completely in DA3: The City of the Gods.)
Nothing ever really came of the "First Fantasy Campaign" book. There were no followup adventures or source materials. It was felt by many to be inferior to the Greyhawk Gazetteer, and, for purposes of actually running a campaign, it was. The FFC booklet was basically little more than a mish-mash of campaign notes (and a few useful rules) from Dave Arneson, though the map was cool. Today, it is a wonderful bit of nostalgia, plus it gives a lot of insight into the campaigns of the day...
Then, in 1986, when TSR got the license from Arneson to publish Blackmoor, they ret-conned Blackmoor to tie in with the Known World setting (which was not then known as Mystara).
Blackmoor appeared in four module/sourcebooks:
DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor (1986)
DA2: Temple of the Frog (1986)
DA3: The City of the Gods (1987)
DA4: The Duchy of Ten (1987)
There was supposed to be a fifth book, DA5: The City of Blackmoor, that never got released (nor do I know if it was ever actually written.)
The DA series Blackmoor setting actually used the map from the original "First Fantasy Campaign," published by Judges Guild. The scale of the map was changed from 10 miles per hex to 24 miles per hex; otherwise, the only differences were in coloration and style of presentation. The map was a perfect match for the original from JG. It even used the Judges Guild hex numbering system, though for some reason the count was off (JG startes with Hex 0101, while the TSR map started with 0501).
Blackmoor was cast as the pre-history of the Known World of Thyatis, Karameikos, and so forth. The DA series of adventures was said to have been set 4000 years prior to the "modern era." Originally, in DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor, the Blackmoor era was said to have been destroyed circa 3000 years prior to the "modern" era of the Known World... but then, at the time, the actual time frame of the Known World had not been completely established. Several modules from that period attest to the Thyatian Empire being only two centuries old, at best, and no two were really coordinated on their dates or even as to the nature of the Known World.
The first Known World Gazetteer, The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, placed the destruction of Blackmoor at 2000 BC (Before Crowning of the Emperor of Thyatis), with the "modern" era being set at 1000 AC (After Crowning of the Emperor of Thyatis). This fit in perfectly with the DA series materials.
The "actual" date of that cataclysm, 3000 BC, as later utilized in Mystara Canon, was first set in the second Gazetteer, The Emirates of Ylaruam. This was also the first place where it was referred to as the "Great Rain of Fire," hearkening back to the "Rain of Colorless Fire" of Greyhawk. All other subsequent Gazetteers used the 3000 BC date, except for the "Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure" boxed set, which, due to editorial mistakes hearkening back to the original work from which it was derived, used the 2000 BC date.
Nowhere in the DA series was the setting ever tied in with the Greyhawk setting, though they legally could have done that. Even at the time, however, there was, due to legal contractual issues, a conscious effort on the part of TSR to separate D&D from AD&D, thus, no such thing would have occured.
The DA series ended in 1987 with DA4, however, the Known World Gazetteer line continued to be published from 1987 through 1991. The Challenger series then ran through 1993 or thereabouts, and, finally, the 2E AD&D editions of Mystara were published through 1995, IIRC. The 2E editions continued to mention Blackmoor, though apparently, only though editorial mistakes. I would presume that the Blackmoor license had either run out, or they were trying to divest themselves of the entanglement.
Today, Zeitgeist Games is resurrecting Blackmoor for d20, Necromancer Games is reviving the Judges Guild City state setting for d20, and Kenzer & Company will be releasing the HackMaster version of Mystara. None of the three, as far as I am aware, will be related to the others in any way, nor to Greyhawk.
James
Originally, when first published in the "First Fantasy Campaign" (published in 1980, the same year the World of Greyhawk Gazetteer was released) Blackmoor was set in the City State world of Judges Guild. The City State maps were 5 miles her hex; thus, the Blackmoor map, at 10 miles per hex, was the size of any four Judges Guild maps. The lower left-hand quarter of the Blackmoor map was designed to just north of the Campaign Map 3: "Valley of the Ancients" map from the City State setting. (Note that later TSR left in the reference to the "Valley of the Ancients" in the DA1 Blackmoor setting map! The nature of the valley was, of course, altered completely in DA3: The City of the Gods.)
Nothing ever really came of the "First Fantasy Campaign" book. There were no followup adventures or source materials. It was felt by many to be inferior to the Greyhawk Gazetteer, and, for purposes of actually running a campaign, it was. The FFC booklet was basically little more than a mish-mash of campaign notes (and a few useful rules) from Dave Arneson, though the map was cool. Today, it is a wonderful bit of nostalgia, plus it gives a lot of insight into the campaigns of the day...
Then, in 1986, when TSR got the license from Arneson to publish Blackmoor, they ret-conned Blackmoor to tie in with the Known World setting (which was not then known as Mystara).
Blackmoor appeared in four module/sourcebooks:
DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor (1986)
DA2: Temple of the Frog (1986)
DA3: The City of the Gods (1987)
DA4: The Duchy of Ten (1987)
There was supposed to be a fifth book, DA5: The City of Blackmoor, that never got released (nor do I know if it was ever actually written.)
The DA series Blackmoor setting actually used the map from the original "First Fantasy Campaign," published by Judges Guild. The scale of the map was changed from 10 miles per hex to 24 miles per hex; otherwise, the only differences were in coloration and style of presentation. The map was a perfect match for the original from JG. It even used the Judges Guild hex numbering system, though for some reason the count was off (JG startes with Hex 0101, while the TSR map started with 0501).
Blackmoor was cast as the pre-history of the Known World of Thyatis, Karameikos, and so forth. The DA series of adventures was said to have been set 4000 years prior to the "modern era." Originally, in DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor, the Blackmoor era was said to have been destroyed circa 3000 years prior to the "modern" era of the Known World... but then, at the time, the actual time frame of the Known World had not been completely established. Several modules from that period attest to the Thyatian Empire being only two centuries old, at best, and no two were really coordinated on their dates or even as to the nature of the Known World.
The first Known World Gazetteer, The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, placed the destruction of Blackmoor at 2000 BC (Before Crowning of the Emperor of Thyatis), with the "modern" era being set at 1000 AC (After Crowning of the Emperor of Thyatis). This fit in perfectly with the DA series materials.
The "actual" date of that cataclysm, 3000 BC, as later utilized in Mystara Canon, was first set in the second Gazetteer, The Emirates of Ylaruam. This was also the first place where it was referred to as the "Great Rain of Fire," hearkening back to the "Rain of Colorless Fire" of Greyhawk. All other subsequent Gazetteers used the 3000 BC date, except for the "Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure" boxed set, which, due to editorial mistakes hearkening back to the original work from which it was derived, used the 2000 BC date.
Nowhere in the DA series was the setting ever tied in with the Greyhawk setting, though they legally could have done that. Even at the time, however, there was, due to legal contractual issues, a conscious effort on the part of TSR to separate D&D from AD&D, thus, no such thing would have occured.
The DA series ended in 1987 with DA4, however, the Known World Gazetteer line continued to be published from 1987 through 1991. The Challenger series then ran through 1993 or thereabouts, and, finally, the 2E AD&D editions of Mystara were published through 1995, IIRC. The 2E editions continued to mention Blackmoor, though apparently, only though editorial mistakes. I would presume that the Blackmoor license had either run out, or they were trying to divest themselves of the entanglement.
Today, Zeitgeist Games is resurrecting Blackmoor for d20, Necromancer Games is reviving the Judges Guild City state setting for d20, and Kenzer & Company will be releasing the HackMaster version of Mystara. None of the three, as far as I am aware, will be related to the others in any way, nor to Greyhawk.
James
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Nice write up of the history James! You deserve a big thumbs-up for making that convoluted history plain and understandable. You should definately cut and paste that on a website somewhere so it can be viewed later. I for one know I will want to see that again in the future.
The most interesting part was finding out that never once was Blackmoor placed in Greyhawk. First it was in the FFC by Judges Guild, and then later put into the Known World, but never once on Oerth. I wonder how that myth came into being then...? Oh well, no matter now. Way to go!
The most interesting part was finding out that never once was Blackmoor placed in Greyhawk. First it was in the FFC by Judges Guild, and then later put into the Known World, but never once on Oerth. I wonder how that myth came into being then...? Oh well, no matter now. Way to go!
johnsemlak
First Post
I second the thanks to James! Very informative
Here's some information from The Acaaum regarding DA4 and AD5.
DA4 Duchy of Ten is set in the same locale as the first three modules, but Dave Arneson was not involved with the project (nor were his "official" Blackmoor notes used).
DA5 City of Blackmoor was a Mystara module scheduled for production sometime in the late 1980's, but cancelled. The only references we have to it are an ad by Esdevium Games in Dragon #131 (page 85), an earmarked TSR stock # (9219), and an advertisement in the Dungeon Hobby Shop catalog (anyone who's got a scan of it, please send). Bruce Heard, in charge of the D&D product line at the time, has said that this module was never even designed, let alone produced and shipped (thanks to Dave Keyser for this info).
Here's some information from The Acaaum regarding DA4 and AD5.
DA4 Duchy of Ten is set in the same locale as the first three modules, but Dave Arneson was not involved with the project (nor were his "official" Blackmoor notes used).
DA5 City of Blackmoor was a Mystara module scheduled for production sometime in the late 1980's, but cancelled. The only references we have to it are an ad by Esdevium Games in Dragon #131 (page 85), an earmarked TSR stock # (9219), and an advertisement in the Dungeon Hobby Shop catalog (anyone who's got a scan of it, please send). Bruce Heard, in charge of the D&D product line at the time, has said that this module was never even designed, let alone produced and shipped (thanks to Dave Keyser for this info).
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