Blackmoor or Wilderlands?

[Kirowan]

I started playing D&D with the Cyclopedia before moving on the 2nd Ed. AD&D. As such, I never even heard of Blackmoor or the Wilderlands until recently. I'm in the market for a new campaign setting that still uses a lot of the typical D&D tropes (planes of existence, devils and demons, ect.).

With that said, what can anyone tell me about Blackmoor or Wilderlands? I looked up all the information I could but there isn't much on either publisher's website. What's the tone of each setting like? I like them dark. What about magic level? A comparison to FR or Greyhawk would be nice. How about high-level NPCs? Do they dominate the setting?

So, please sell me on one or the other or enlighten me in any way you can.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, you'll really have to wait until either ones comes out (though I think the Wilderlands was supposed to have the player book released at Gencon...)

Both should probably fit the bill, but I'm kind of worried about Blackmoor. I'm on the mailing list for it, and it sounds like Dave Arneson isn't having all that much to do with it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Both should probably fit the bill, but I'm kind of worried about Blackmoor. I'm on the mailing list for it, and it sounds like Dave Arneson isn't having all that much to do with it.

Okay, I can't tell you what I've done for them, or which project it's on, but I have done some work for Zeitgeist Games, and will be doing more in the future. And I can assure you that Dave is very much involved with this book, and is an active partner in Zeitgeist.

 

[Melan]

Greetings!

I have been involved in the Wilderlands design team and currently use a few parts of the draft in my home campaign. My knowledge about Blackmoor is limited, so take what I say with a grain of salt. (also, others will likely know more than I)

First of all: the two settings should be fairly compatible, and in the 70s, they were situated in the same world (although the Blackmoor map was on a scale four times less detailed than the Wilderlands). If you have the spare cash, you should probably buy both and put Blackmoor north/northeast of the "Valley of the Ancients" map.

What the two setting have in common:

-a very old school feel

-some remains of ancient very high tech. This is more pronounced in Blackmoor, but still found now and then in the Wilderlands. In the new edition, you are given an option to use this particular aspect of the backstory, or consider it "high magic".

-the focus is on player characters. While there is a fair amount of powerful characters, they don't run the show, and a party of mid level (5 to 8th, even) could easily become power players in a region.

-there is a lot of wilderness. There are no "states" - rather, population and power is concentrated in autonomous city-states and hundreds of small, independent communities. Pretty adventurer friendly.

-power level isn't as high as the Realms or even Greyhawk. Level 10 is considered extremely high, and 20th level types are usually either extremely powerful movers and shakers or hidden from the normal world alltogether. Most town leaders are maybe 10th level if they are really powerful. In the new Wilderlands, there is an optional revised XP table that slows down progress to about halved speed.

Now, details particular to the Wilderlands, especially its current incarnation:
-The known world is mapped out on 18 poster-sized hexagonal maps with numbered hexes, broken down to the scale of 5 miles. This opens a mode of play that is often glossed over in today's games: wilderness exploration and even "striking out on your own" to see the wide world. The players also have their hex-maps, but these are incomplete, with only coastlines and well known features drawn in (so you may have a map where you can see the City State of the Invincible Overlord and the infamous Dearthwood, but not the really small and out of the way villages in the area - or, for that matter, distant lands). As they explore around, they have to map out their progress on their own maps. My players love this feature - in my campaign, getting t a certain dungeon was an accomplishment itself - they travelled from one map to another, and the whole process took half a year of game time and months IRL.

-The feel of the world isn't quite as medieval as other settings - more like the ancient Mediterranean with its morals, plus the usual D&D elements, mostly from Conan. Gods are above mortals but not by much (and often meddle), slavery is an accepted fact of life, evil clerics walk openly and so forth.

-There aren't too many commoners in there. Most inhabitants of the setting can fight as well as warriors and low level Fighters, Rogues, Wizards or Clerics are common.

-It is a bottom-up setting, concentrating on local details. It is very vague and easy to shape, especially at the global level. You could make it a dark fantasy setting, a realistic one (that one isn't too easy, granted), or as fantastic as you like. I made it a lot more conanesque and changed the feel considerably (with the removal of many demi-humans, etc.), which was really easy to do. The Wilderlands is a framework to change, play in and modify at your whim. This philosophy and freedom is central to Judges Guild and its owner, Bob Bledsaw.
For example, the "world book" will describe such things as villages, mysterious ruins, monster lairs, fortifications, small islands and say a few words about them with a short stat block or two. There is no metaplot, little details on "what is happening". That is your job.

-To see a few examples of how the end product may look like, I provide the following links, all of them officially released by Necromancer Games:
Official JG Site - has maps and news
Thread on Gazetteer
Boxed set teasers
More Teasers
Teaser on the City State of the World Emperor
City State of the Invincible Overlord Teaser



...


Hope this helps.

 

[rounser]

The known world is mapped out on 18 poster-sized hexagonal maps with numbered hexes, broken down to the scale of 5 miles. This opens a mode of play that is often glossed over in today's games: wilderness exploration and even "striking out on your own" to see the wide world. The players also have their hex-maps, but these are incomplete, with only coastlines and well known features drawn in (so you may have a map where you can see the City State of the Invincible Overlord and the infamous Dearthwood, but not the really small and out of the way villages in the area - or, for that matter, distant lands). As they explore around, they have to map out their progress on their own maps. My players love this feature - in my campaign, getting t a certain dungeon was an accomplishment itself - they travelled from one map to another, and the whole process took half a year of game time and months IRL.

SOLD.

 

[grodog]

Melan---

That's a GREAT summary!

If you weren't already cherry-picking its details from ads, sell-sheets, and other marketing materials, you should send it along to Bill & Clark so that they could use it to help promote the books, box sets, etc.

 

[coyote6]

In the new Wilderlands, there is an optional revised XP table that slows down progress to about halved speed.

I wonder how that works with the d20 STL. (I think the Wilderlands is d20; or is it OGL?)

Sounds interesting, in any case. The very first (A)D&D I ever played was a character that was going to the City-state of the Invincible Overlord. I remember being quite impressed (and confused) by the map I was shown.

Of course, my character got beat nearly to death before he ever got into the city. Damn first level characters with low hp!

 

[MaxKaladin]

-there is a lot of wilderness. There are no "states" - rather, population and power is concentrated in autonomous city-states and hundreds of small, independent communities. Pretty adventurer friendly.

I've been kinda curious about this setting and this is one of the things I've been wondering about. How, in the game world, did this situation come to be? More specifically, I've gotten the impression the setting has lots of isolated settlements with plenty of wilderness between them. While I can see how this would be handy for adventurers, I was wodering how this came to be in the settings background rather than everything clumping together as is typical in human societies.

 

[Orcus]

Boy Melan, that was a great post.

Here are a few product highlights.

It is d20. It is 3.5.

The XP chart is an optional chart that progresses a little more slowly. I think 3E whips by the real fun low levels of 1-4. The chart I use slows that down a bit (not as bad as old 1E) but still makes the high levels very reachable. d20 constrains me from redoing how experience is handed out, but I can provide a replacement XP table (as long as I dont describe the process of using it, which I dont need to. )

As for the setting, the Wilderlands is a land of ancient empires that have mostly fallen. In fact, all the current city states are built on the ruins of even more ancient civilizations. The current biggie, the City State of Viridistan, is ruled by a strange evil race called Viridians (they have greenish skin and are super evil) that is dwindling and though the leader is called the World Emperor, in truth he holds sway over a very small portion of the Wilderlands. Numerous nomad and barbarian hordes have battled over the lands. Civilization is finally returning to the area. The City State of the Invincible Overlord (a classic) is growing in power. The merchants and pirates of Tarantis rule the seas. The blue skinned Avalonian ice wizards in their glittering City State of Valon sit on the edge of a great glacier to the north. The Sea Kings of Rallu rule the southern Sea of Five Winds and Tula, the City of Mages, trains specialist wizards in its many colored towers. The Demon Empires of demonic descendents lurk to the south and the far-off Kingdom of Karak lies to the east. While the Infinite Desert lies to the west.

The setting is waiting for a Conan to unite it and rule it. Characters can be major movers and shakers.

The world is not "filled up" or "well known". There is much to explore. Much that is wild. TONS of room for players to even start their own towns or castles. Overland travel is dangerous (the world isnt nicely parsed into 1st level sectinos and 3rd level sections like some silly computer game). You are as likely to meet wild horses as you are a pack of dire tigers (ouch!).

It is all about epic, heroic fantasy. Think Frank Frazetta. Oh, and did I mention the cover art is by Frank Frazetta?

Hope that helps.

Clark

 

[Kirowan]

That definitely does help Clark. I'm intrigued.

What about release date for the Player's Guide? How about the boxed set?

Thanks,

Nick