Blade Barrier situation

[Galfridus]

I have an...odd situation, and I'm looking to get some helpful input.

BBBBBBBB
#...#
#.12#
###2#
.....

# = wall
. = floor
B = blade barrier (cast by character 2)
1 = character 1 (NPC, medium size, 5x5)
2 = character 2 (PC, large size, 10x10)

Character 2 has attempted to squeeze through a doorway to attack character 1, but is unable to get into the room because character 1 occupies a square that he would require in order to take up a 10x10 space. (Note that character 1 isn't currently really taking up 10x10 -- I made it clear that he could squeeze into his current position, but that it would be difficult given his size.

What would happen if character 1 cast a blade barrier running south through the doorway that character 2 is in?

SRD:

An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades shaped of pure force springs into existence. Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.
If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall (ending up on the side of its choice) and thus take no damage by making a successful Reflex save.

If he makes a Reflex save, where can he end up? Does that mean he automatically fails the save?

 

[Greatwyrm]

This has always been a sticky one, since it's one of the few times in D&D that you can move when it isn't your turn. In the situation you described, there are a few things that could happen.

1. If the creature fails the save, they get pureed. This one's easy.

2. If the creature makes his save, he can retreat out of the doorway. However, if he can't get to a square that gets him out of the blade barrier, he's still blenderized.

3. If the creature makes his save, he can try to push further into the room. He'd have to win on a bull rush or overrun and still make it to a safe square. Since this one basically involves an extra attack in addition to extra movement, I'd think twice before allowing this option.

One other thing to check on, I think in 3.5, they changed Blade Barrier to dismissable at will. If that's true (double check me on that), then character 2 could drop his BB, move forward and up, and still end up in a safe square.

 

[Hypersmurf]

One other thing to check on, I think in 3.5, they changed Blade Barrier to dismissable at will. If that's true (double check me on that), then character 2 could drop his BB, move forward and up, and still end up in a safe square.

"Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

But I have a feeling Wall spells appear on the borders between squares, don't they? So while 2 is squeezing into one 'column', the Barrier can only appear to the east or to the west of him.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

IIRC walls do appear on borders if they can. But the wall could be create at an angle.

BBBBBBBB
#.b.#
#.1b#
###b#
....b

 

[Hypersmurf]

IIRC walls do appear on borders if they can. But the wall could be create at an angle.

Well, then he can end up on the southwest side of it, surely?

BBBBBBBB
#.b.#
#.1b#
###b#
..22b
..22b

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

Yeah, but he'd pretty much be out of the battle unless he was a caster.

 

[Galfridus]

But I have a feeling Wall spells appear on the borders between squares, don't they? So while 2 is squeezing into one 'column', the Barrier can only appear to the east or to the west of him.
-Hyp.

I can't find a rule which states this, only the rule that a spell's point of origin must be a grid intersection. So it would be possible to run a wall diagonally from the grid intersection where the existing blade barrier meets the eastern wall, running NNE - SSW through the doorway. However, it does seem like the possibility to step outside exists. So let's modify the question:

BBBBBBBB
#.22#
#122#
###.#
.....

Now 1 casts a blade barrier running north-south along the gridline that cuts through character 2. Would you allow him to step out of the door in this instance? If so, then what if the blade barrier ran from the grid intersection NW of character 2 through the grid intersection S of the east end of the doorway?

To insert some storyline into this question, I'm asking because this combat is currently underway (stopped the session partway through). Character 1 is a smart and well-trained NPC who would know the results of placing their spell. I guess I'm really looking for opinions on how far should you be allowed to move to avoid a Blade Barrier -- 5 feet, however long it takes, or somewhere in between?

The question gets uglier with larger creatures -- does a 20x20 creature get 10' free movement if the barrier pops down right in their middle?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now 1 casts a blade barrier running north-south along the gridline that cuts through character 2. Would you allow him to step out of the door in this instance?

The question gets uglier with larger creatures -- does a 20x20 creature get 10' free movement if the barrier pops down right in their middle?

I think in both these cases, I'd allow them to 'squeeze' as though moving through a narrow corridor, taking up half their normal facing...

-Hyp.