Blades in the Dark Advice Please?

[Breaking Star Games]

I really appreciate Apocalypse World for popularizing not using weirdly Simulationist stats in TTRPGs. I agree that it would be a lot better if instead of Hard, it was Ruthless. Cunning instead of Sharp. Charming instead of Hot. In general, there is a lot more jargon that has caused issues than preferred.

But for decades most games seem to try and fit stats that are trying to measure something that really doesn't fit. Ironsworn/Starforged does a really good job making use of these kind of different stats where none of them are ever "dumped." All are important aspects of the character and what the game is about.

To get back on topic, Blades in the Dark just sticking with a skill list fixes that issue nicely too. But it does mean there aren't those interesting options you see with PbtA Playbook Moves where you have a unique Move based on a stat. So that is a serious limitation if you don't have base stats (though I suppose you could use the 3 Resistance Stats). Many of my favorite options are that whereas in BitD, Special Abilities often feel like just worse than increasing your Actions because they are more niche and often a little boring like +1D or +Effect in a niche situation. Though there are a few standouts that are really potent like Functioning Vice.

 

[Tutara]

To get back on topic, Blades in the Dark just sticking with a skill list fixes that issue nicely too. But it does mean there aren't those interesting options you see with PbtA Playbook Moves where you have a unique Move based on a stat. So that is a serious limitation if you don't have base stats (though I suppose you could use the 3 Resistance Stats). Many of my favorite options are that whereas in BitD, Special Abilities often feel like just worse than increasing your Actions because they are more niche and often a little boring like +1D or +Effect in a niche situation. Though there are a few standouts that are really potent like Functioning Vice.

I find those little +1d and +effect boosts add more narratively than first glance suggests, although I agree they are less glamorous. The equivalent of a free push every time without stress isn't to be sneezed at, particularly when you can regular push as well, and even more so when you've already allocated the maximum number of action dots. Functioning Vice is powerful numerically but doesn't create as many narrative opportunities, in my experience.

Do the 'push to activate' abilities like the Devil's Footsteps (push to perform a feat of athletics that verges on the superhuman—maneuver to confuse your enemies so they mistakenly attack each other), fill this niche? Or abilities like Reflexes (always act first) or Like Looking Into a Mirror (always know when someone is lying) which always happen? If these are more what you like in PBtA, then I am also a fan of these sorts of abilities. I confess I'm not familiar with PBtA in anything more than a passing capacity.

I guess I much prefer taking special abilities to another dot, most times. The thing I still can't quite get my head around is potency. It looks like it should have a specific mechanical benefit but I've never quite figured out what is meant by it - we usually swither between 'can do this better than most' and 'can succeed in a situation where failure would normally be the only outcome, like punching a ghost.

 

[Breaking Star Games]

I find those little +1d and +effect boosts add more narratively than first glance suggests, although I agree they are less glamorous. The equivalent of a free push every time without stress isn't to be sneezed at, particularly when you can regular push as well, and even more so when you've already allocated the maximum number of action dots. Functioning Vice is powerful numerically but doesn't create as many narrative opportunities, in my experience.

Do the 'push to activate' abilities like the Devil's Footsteps (push to perform a feat of athletics that verges on the superhuman—maneuver to confuse your enemies so they mistakenly attack each other), fill this niche? Or abilities like Reflexes (always act first) or Like Looking Into a Mirror (always know when someone is lying) which always happen? If these are more what you like in PBtA, then I am also a fan of these sorts of abilities. I confess I'm not familiar with PBtA in anything more than a passing capacity.

I guess I much prefer taking special abilities to another dot, most times. The thing I still can't quite get my head around is potency. It looks like it should have a specific mechanical benefit but I've never quite figured out what is meant by it - we usually swither between 'can do this better than most' and 'can succeed in a situation where failure would normally be the only outcome, like punching a ghost.

Those "Push to..." can definitely be similar to Playbook Moves. Like the Superhuman feat was definitely inspired by Apocalypse World's "NOT TO BE naughty word WITH" which lets the Gunlugger fight like they are a small gang. But that is just always on when they fight. Also its less loose than the whole potency/scale which is made to be more of a judgement call in BitD where Apocalypse World has specific rules for increasing your damage/armor.

An example of a Playbook Move where there is a roll is Apocalypse World Burned Over has:

Eye on the door: Name your escape route and roll+Cool. On a 10+, sweet, you’re gone. On a 7–9, you can go or stay, but if you go it costs you: leave something behind, or take something with you, the MC will tell you what. On a miss, you’re caught vulnerable, half in and half out.

Sure anybody can do some kind of roll to escape (when it makes sense fictionally), but you have a stronger, more reliable and more controlled way to do so where other PCs don't know what kind of costs might happen if they Act Under Fire to run away. Often a 7-9 (which is a 4,5 in BitD) on Act Under Fire may be in BitD terms a Weak Result so you aren't gone.

And it fits the narrative of this flighty character who is all about driving and hating attachments although like everyone, they do end up relying on them. It can make it more interesting to discover how much they are willing to risk to stay when they have an easy escape in their backpocket.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I really appreciate Apocalypse World for popularizing not using weirdly Simulationist stats in TTRPGs. I agree that it would be a lot better if instead of Hard, it was Ruthless. Cunning instead of Sharp. Charming instead of Hot. In general, there is a lot more jargon that has caused issues than preferred.

But for decades most games seem to try and fit stats that are trying to measure something that really doesn't fit. Ironsworn/Starforged does a really good job making use of these kind of different stats where none of them are ever "dumped." All are important aspects of the character and what the game is about.

Yeah the old way is full of weird, too.

I’m working on my own game’s stats, and rewriting them from the ground up as “resource pools you draw from or draw upon”, so Stength works, but Wisdom would be silly. Will is good, but but I’m not sure the game needs more than Strength, Agility, Will, Wits. I strongly prefer “you have” over “you are” stats, so I’d never call them Strong, Agile, Willful, Smart.

To get back on topic, Blades in the Dark just sticking with a skill list fixes that issue nicely too. But it does mean there aren't those interesting options you see with PbtA Playbook Moves where you have a unique Move based on a stat. So that is a serious limitation if you don't have base stats (though I suppose you could use the 3 Resistance Stats). Many of my favorite options are that whereas in BitD, Special Abilities often feel like just worse than increasing your Actions because they are more niche and often a little boring like +1D or +Effect in a niche situation. Though there are a few standouts that are really potent like Functioning Vice.

Yeah the architecture of the game feels to me like the special abilities should be very interesting and punchy, but I will say the game does feel good in play, so…it’s hard for me to say that it would be improved by a different style of special features.

 

[Starfox]

I picked up Blades in the Dark and at least skimmed it now. My immediate thought is "this is the rules SLA Industries should have been using".

Almost everything from BitD is also in Princess World - Frontier Kingdoms - the one thing missing from memory is the Engagement Roll, which is a nice mechanic I may use anyway. The plan is to play some Candela Obscura to get the Score process rolling, then move over to Princess World - Frontier Kingdoms and play quite a bit of that before making my homebrew.

As for me being a player in BitD, that naturally depends on that GM, but I'm quite interested in more. I play a Hound, which seems likely to place me out of the core of the action as a sniper on overwatch - we'll see how that plays out.

 

[niklinna]

I picked up Blades in the Dark and at least skimmed it now. My immediate thought is "this is the rules SLA Industries should have been using".

Almost everything from BitD is also in Princess World - Frontier Kingdoms - the one thing missing from memory is the Engagement Roll, which is a nice mechanic I may use anyway. The plan is to play some Candela Obscura to get the Score process rolling, then move over to Princess World - Frontier Kingdoms and play quite a bit of that before making my homebrew.

As for me being a player in BitD, that naturally depends on that GM, but I'm quite interested in more. I play a Hound, which seems likely to place me out of the core of the action as a sniper on overwatch - we'll see how that plays out.

I played a Hound with my first group, and being out of the core of the action as a sniper on overwatch was very much not what I did. But it is a fantastic option for the Hound!

To clarify a bit, my hunting pet was a pair of ravens*, telepathically linked. We "balanced" there being two by them not being as effective in direct attacking as the usually assumed pet might be. They performed overwatch duties, when necessary, allowing me to remain with the party most of the time (to be sure there were times we split up). We were a crew of Shadows, and the rest didn't want to engage in overt violence much, but overt violence kept happening of course, and when it did, I was the one who dealt with it, often in the harshest way possible. It was a fun bit of tension in that I was absolutely necessary to the crew, but they weren't comfortable with how my character would just execute someone who threatened us (or you know, just someone, if they got on his bad side).

* Like Odin, I like my ravens in pairs.

That game ended prematurely, and I still miss playing the guy. One of my favoritest characters ever. Next time I get a chance to play Blades, I'm likely to play him again.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

You keep making posts that feel like you think you’ve got a mic drop moment…and you haven’t been remotely close to one at any point, you’ve just turned a comment about naming conventions into a case of you making it personal for literally no reason.

My dude, this just isn't your thread. But go ahead, keep beclowning yourself on this weird hill.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Totally useless and counterproductive activity. When you threadcrap, expect to get called out for it.

Now run along. We're talking about actual things over here.

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