Blasphemy = Broken?

[Nonlethal Force]

A pair of half-dragon/half-fiend/blackguard fire giants

Is this combination numerically possible?

Anyway, back to the thread:

I think Thanee's idea is good. The item will be helpful, and outside of their control, really. But then again so is the blasphemy. So you have two things beyond player control - one against the party and one for the party.

Is the whole party level 10? Because if not, the could run into a smaller, less powerful minion who could only efect part of the party. That would get there attention to the fact that blasphemy is a possibility.

Do you have a cleric or a paladin in the group? You could slip them a not that as the meditated with their god they were specifically warned to be prepared for such a vile creature before the end of the day. That would be a legit IC way of dropping a very large hint.

Just a few more ideas ....

 

[Nim]

Well. 10th level party, CR 13 creature with a powerful relative-level-based ability. No surprise they're in for some trouble But if they know the danger, they should be able to handle it.

It's a powerful ability. The giant's probably pretty fond of using it. So the easy way for them to know it's coming is to come across some victims or hear a story of a previous battle. A Knowledge check about half-fiends might do it. Divination spells might give a hint. A Bardic Knowledge check might well reveal that this particular foe has that sort of ability.

Silence is a good tactic for them, though the only reliable way to use it would be to keep the party inside the area of effect (rather than targetting it on the giant). That'll limit the casters quite a bit. Looking at it from outside and KNOWING the stats (which of course the characters don't), I'd say the thing that'd save this fight for them the quickest would be a surprise attack from a wizard with Enervation. Give the giant even 1 negative level, and they'll avoid the paralysis.

An alternative to Silence (and one that wouldn't require the party to stay in a tight group) would be Deafness.

Even aside from the Blasphemy, though, this'll be a tough fight. The template abilities provide protection in areas the fire giant is otherwise weak: namely, he'll be getting Cold Resistance 10 and SR 25, which'll make the PC attempts to use his cold vulnerability against him much less successful.

 

[Krafen]

Hmm, deafness is a great idea. I hadn't thought of that as a counter to blasphemy. I'd put deafness on everyone who doesn't need to cast verbal spells and use silence stones for the casters. You would probably need telepathic bond for communication, though.

 

[Shin Okada]

Blasphemy works relative to caster level and HDs of the victims. Usually, this is not a problem. PCs rarely meet a cleric with +5 level relative to them. Remember, for a typical 4-men party, a creature with +5 relative to their ECL is "overwhelming".

But if you give a lot of those CL+X items, or use prestige classes or feats which improves CL, Blasphemy may instantly paralyze some PCs. And yes, half-fiend template is broken when you give it to a creature with much higher HD comparing to it's CR. That is why calculating CR is not a science, even when you are just adding some template to a existing monster in MM.

The survivability of the party may become better if they have a cleric (or two) with Travel domain. And current trend of having a Warforged or two in a party may lessen the problem, too.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Use CR to determine the giant's casterlevel instead of HD.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Blasphemy is one of those spells they need to fix for the next edition of the game. In other words, a lot of the save-or-die (or get screwed spells) need changing. They just aren't fun. I dunno how to change them, but maybe have them take time to kill so that the other PCs (or monsters) have time to intervene. There's nothing worse than having the epic encounter end in round 1 b/c of a blown save (and having everyone buffed against every eventuality becomes silly after a while).

I had a recent encounter where two enemies both cast blasphemy on the PCs. Nothing happened. Absolutely nothing, as all the PCs were too high level to be affected (the enemy didn't realize that beforehand). I really don't like spells that are either too good or too bad.

 

[Quasqueton]

In my previous campaign, the party of six 7th-level PCs (1 was level 5) encountered a half-fiend advanced treant (13HD) with blasphemy. They knew nothing of this creature before they met it, but the battle took place in a large cavern with plenty of room for maneuver.

3 PCs fell to the blasphemy, but the other 3 managed to not only retreat, but get their paralyzed comrades out as well (sealing up the passage with a wall of stone cast from a scroll). 1 PC was actually killed in the battle. The "mobile" PCs used strong tactics, personal spells, and had some not inconsiderable luck.

Later in their adventure (5 game sessions later), the party of now six 8th-level PCs went back after the same treant. They knew what they were going up against this time, and had some decent plans for the encounter. Unfortunately, they completely screwed up their own plans at the very beginning (as was normal for that group), and the result was 4 of the 6 got paralyzed. The remaining 2PC managed to run circles (pretty much literally) around the treant for 50 rounds (yes, that's fifty!) until the other PCs started coming out of the paralysis. In the end, they managed to kill the treant, with no loss of PC life.

I'm just posting this to show that it can be survived. And even foreknowledge and preparation can be foolishly screwed up.

Quasqueton

 

[Nim]

Later in their adventure (5 game sessions later), the party of now six 8th-level PCs went back after the same treant. They knew what they were going up against this time, and had some decent plans for the encounter. Unfortunately, they completely screwed up their own plans at the very beginning (as was normal for that group), and the result was 4 of the 6 got paralyzed. The remaining 2PC managed to run circles (pretty much literally) around the treant for 50 rounds (yes, that's fifty!) until the other PCs started coming out of the paralysis. In the end, they managed to kill the treant, with no loss of PC life.

I'm just posting this to show that it can be survived. And even foreknowledge and preparation can be foolishly screwed up.

Over the course of 50 rounds, the treant never gave up on chasing the mobile PCs to spike the paralyzed ones before they woke up? Somehow, I don't think it'd happen that way in our game here

 

[Crothian]

40 foot spread. But when the party brick(s) charges in to keep the critter away from the fragile blaster(s), and is rendered a complete non-threat for the duration of the battle, you still have a recepie for a rather difficult situation.

better then it effecting everyone and TPK

 

[Quasqueton]

Over the course of 50 rounds, the treant never gave up on chasing the mobile PCs to spike the paralyzed ones before they woke up? Somehow, I don't think it'd happen that way in our game here

The 2 mobile PCs were a wizard and a rogue. The wizard got a ray of exhaustion through the treant's SR (the only spell he got through). This reduced the treant to half movement. The wizard also fireballed the grove of trees in the cavern to destroy them before the treant could animate them.

[This was a Large treant, not Huge like in the MM -- it was stunted, living in an underground grove.]

Since the group had specially prepared and equipped for this battle, they (especially the rogue) were stocked up on holy water (half-fiend treant is an outsider). While the gnome wizard on dogback tried to get some spells through the treant's SR, the elf rogue nickel and dimed the treant with vials of holy water. The treant tried catching them, but through good tactics, faster movement than the treant, and a large cavern to manuever in, the 2 PCs stayed out of his grasp. When the treant went after one, the other would drag a friend out of the cavern.

The treant tried using objects around the cavern as missile weapons, but he couldn't hit or hit hard enough to take either down. After several rounds it became apparent to the treant that he wasn't going to be able to catch either of his enemies. He would have used a downed PC as a hostage, but the mobile PCs had wisely made getting the paralyzed folks dragged out of the cavern their first priority. The treant couldn't reach anyone down the smaller passage.

The win was a result of good tactics, some luck, and the perfect combination of 2 PCs surviving the initial blasphemy (by being too far away). If the wizard had not gotten the ray of exhaustion through, the rogue could not have run circles around the treant. And if any other character but the rogue had been the partner to the wizard, their slower movement rate would not have kept them out of the treant's reach.

Now, for those armchair/Monday-morning quarterbacks here, I've not detailed the entire battle. I'm sure someone could point out a flaw -- there's bound to be 1 or 2 in 50+ rounds of combat. Plus, this took place nearly a year ago, so I don't remember every detail. But, although I'm not an intentionally killer DM, I don't pull any punches -- dice rolls and monster tactics are straight up and honest -- my Players know this, and they won this fight honestly.

Quasqueton