Blending the D&Ds

[Garthanos]

There might be consumables like potions (unless we are talking about potions in enchanted vials of spell storing that confer effects as well) and scrolls in the 300 gp range, but when you start talking magic weapons and armor, needs to be at least 1000. And, that's used because it does not cover the material of the weapon or armor nor the labor and expertise. Of course, feel free to add economics.

Economics in D&D has never been wonderful living life even for those who are medieval noblemen is really cheap in comparison to the treasure taken in every version of the game so the gold acquisition is tied into things which grant power not living (but it turns out that is ok).

(note in real life its generally "ironically" cheaper to be rich so artificial inflation because players have a lot of gold is anti-realistic strangely enough)

At first I didnt like the exponential advancing gold acquisition but I think i had a Eureka or several of them. For one the advancement fit with troop and follower acquisition and management in a surprisingly clean way. AND I thought of a way that keeps them optional or even large amounts of gold out of the picture, for those not interested

Story wise we can have keeping troops be not super expensive (back in the day a silver would feed a man modestly for 2 weeks - one gold 10x that or 1 man 20 weeks? I know this isn't a historical universe but bear with me) the cost would not be significant to people who treat gold as a common thing at least NOT until you use them in battle and have to pay blood prices or ransom them back or grant bonus hazard pay etc the effect is you can have your Castle of followers and unless you use them in adventure/significant fashion AND in effect use them for story power, they do not really affect the super heroic player character economy in a major way, they are then just flavor. And you can even manage fairly frequent minor uses so they are in the story but similar economically to buying potions/scrolls or various rituals. (Martial Practices provide a nice avenue for that)

I also introduced a concept of Karma points to my DnD that are in effect NOT gold perceptually but are gold under the hood After all it just as worth while saving the farmers daughter as the prince or princess Karma points rather track that and can in effect reduce price of goods or services (like training) in a behind the scenes way. In some sense something very weird is going on as karma points let the character give his gold to charity and rather still benefit from it LOL -- this idea could be used in any edition.

yep.. Thanks, Garthanos

No problem I love sparking ideas

 

[Zardnaar]

When I play some of the clones these days or old D&D I like gold for xp. Started on BECMI where the DM did not use that rule (1 year to hit lvl 4 as fighter) and then 2E which we only experimented with some of the optional xp and the Thief ended up 3-4 levels ahead of everyone (2 xp per gold).

It really does reward exploration though. I had PCs miss a philosophers tone in C&C which was 50k gold early on (it was in a cesspool to be fair). Insta death things like rot grubs also teaches them to be careful hence they did not want to look in said cesspool.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd use 5e's multiclassing. You get the good saves of the first class. If both classes were spell casting classes, the spell slots stack somewhat and stay relevant even at higher levels since the effectiveness is not based on spellcaster level, but on ability modifier. Unlike 4e hybrid/ multiclass rules, you get to keep most of the first and second classes features nor gimp yourself past level 10. The classes are not so front loaded, but you still get good benefits from taking a level or five of a class.

And that is one of the 5e mechanics I find to be pretty damn good.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Emphasis mine: Isn't that the truth!

I figure, there's a reason why most independent hacks end up looking a lot like Basic, while serious attempts to copy 4E require larger companies.

It also explains why the D&D hack I'm currently writing looks so little like the ideal version I just described.

 

[Zardnaar]

I figure, there's a reason why most independent hacks end up looking a lot like Basic, while serious attempts to copy 4E require larger companies.

It also explains why the D&D hack I'm currently writing looks so little like the ideal version I just described.

Most hacks of B/X can be done in a reasonably small page count while something like 3.X or 4E require 1000 odd pages (cf 160 odd pages for Basic Fantasy).

My B/X hack would add feats and fort/ref/def from 3.x and rewrite the feats to smooth out the difference between the crap ones and the good ones and probably add expert (non combat) ones to the ix that certain classes get more of so bonus expert feats are not competing with the combat ones a generic bonus feat would. Ability scores are capped and some OSR things would come back like old school SR/MR but it would be a flat number on a d20 not % based- like the old D&D minis game. For example MR 90% becomes 18 and you have to roll a 19 or 20 to beat it and its not modified by caster level (maybe a feat spell penetration that gives +2 to punch through).

And the fort/ref/will saves woudl scale differently with capped ability scores and lower DCs so you would not have the 5-11+ difference between good and bad saves like 3.x and 5E.

I owuld be looking at 5E, B/X and SWSE for a D&D hack or to clone/improve/homebrew whatever edition you like even if its just capping ability scores and smaller numbers.

 

[Garthanos]

and probably add expert (non combat) ones to the ix that certain classes get more of so bonus expert feats are not competing with the combat ones a generic bonus feat would.

That would be a good port to every D&D I think.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, the best way I’ve found to mix various versions of D&D- post 1Ed & 2Ed- is to use HERO.* With it, I’ve been able to mix classes across the editions without problems.





* Other toolbox systems may also work, but HERO is the one I know best.

 

[Garthanos]

Gold for XP is definitely not something I will be adopting anytime soon.

Implicit message it seems to bring to the table.

"Never take on a quest unless you are getting paid and fighting evil should just be avoided.... greed is good after all and we should reward selfish cowardice too after you hide from bad guys or for that matter good guys to get at their gold often enough all that thievery will make you more skilled at killing them and cringing in the corner is better way to advance after all. Also hell no I am not going to risk my neck for some barmaid or peasants son - no gold in that."

/sarcasm.

Sneaking around and arranging to get around conflicts should only make you better at sneaking around and avoiding conflict.

Rune Quests skill system was pretty interesting at having characters advance in the abilities that they use. There was a bit of compromise though if you had money it was useful for getting some training (which had limits about how advanced it could take you).

 

[Garthanos]

Personally, the best way I’ve found to mix various versions of D&D- post 1Ed & 2Ed- is to use HERO.* With it, I’ve been able to mix classes across the editions without problems.

Convert your characters to HERO?

 

[Advilaar]

Gold for XP is definitely not something I will be adopting anytime soon.

Implicit message it seems to bring to the table.

"Never take on a quest unless you are getting paid and fighting evil should just be avoided.... greed is good after all and we should reward selfish cowardice too after you hide from bad guys or for that matter good guys to get at their gold often enough all that thievery will make you more skilled at killing them and cringing in the corner is better way to advance after all. Also hell no I am not going to risk my neck for some barmaid or peasants son - no gold in that."

/sarcasm.

Sneaking around and arranging to get around conflicts should only make you better at sneaking around and avoiding conflict.

Rune Quests skill system was pretty interesting at having characters advance in the abilities that they use. There was a bit of compromise though if you had money it was useful for getting some training (which had limits about how advanced it could take you).

If gold equaled XP, most merchants would be demigods. Now, for my campaign, some of the merchants *are* near demigods. But, the characters are 20th level with epic boons and are exarchs and such. One such merchant is Wal'gren, a mercane that specializes in enchanting with residuum baths and improving items. If you have the wealth of a nation and want a god-weapon or armor special done, he's the one you see in Union to have this enchanted. He has customers from around the multiverse.

But, I doubt the largest major city grocer is epic level though they sell enough food to supply a city and pay nice livelihoods to everyone from workers, managers, artisan cheese makers, animal breeders, butchers, wine makers, etc!

I do not think either me or the other DM at the time used gold = XP in our campaigns in the 2e days. Then again in the 2e days, there was so much homeberew you could go from one game to another and it be vastly different.

Convert your characters to HERO?

I like some other systems and have dabbled in some of them in the past. Most of them were one shots or something I ran into at a convention. Some of them I like, others I can take or leave.

Problem is in marketing and recruiting for players when that comes up. The words "Dungeons and Dragons" is the milkshake that brings all the people to the yard. If you start deviating from that too much, you end up with your own system which is less marketable. Most of the prospective players have heard of DnD. Some may watch Critical Role or played DnD when much younger. DnD has become ubiquitous. You deviate too much, you lose that draw.

I remember one time years back (2004), I found myself in need of a game. Turnover, people moving, and World of Warcraft decimated my gamer pool. I wanted DnD. I went to a local meetup designated for people to meet other gamers. Problem? No real games. There was one guy there that the organizer whispered to me had lost 2 groups in a row because while he "played" DnD, the real game was some kind of custom power fantasy ego deal with powerful DMPCs and custom rules that changed on a whim with him and his girlfriend being all powerful. Nope. The other possible game was one of these aspiring game designers trying to playtest some custom game to publish. More power to him, but was not something I wanted to get into at the time.

No one got gamers that day. (Organizer had 2 or 3 full groups and merely facilitated the meetings. Bummer. i wanted on with them!)

But.. If someone ran DnD... real DnD even with a lot of house rules mixing in some things, the people would have come.

Which is exactly what I did. Organized it myself. Had plenty of games. But I doubt I would have done it if it was not DnD.