Blocking Movement of Large Monsters

[Rafe]

If the brute has a fighter with a mark on it, it's going to be pretty hard to hit the squishy, because you're going to take a beating when the fighter takes his OA with +WISMOD. To that end we ruled in our game that a 2-attack action (like most solos have) that includes the fighter for one of the attacks is good enough to satisfy the mark so the fighter doesn't get the OA, but I've yet to see any RAW or CS response that supports this interpretation.

Ah, thanks for that! You're right... I thought Fighters got OAs only when the marked target shifted or moved. I didn't see that it also counts if the marked target makes an attack that does not include the source of the mark. Good to know! (Hope the Fighter in my group is a bit more on the ball than I am...)

I think that's a good interpretation to make in this instance and I can see myself and my DM making the same one. That said, an "official ruling" would likely be more along the lines of: "To avoid the penalty to attack rolls as well as the OA, every attack - not simply one attack per round - made by a creature marked by Combat Challenge must include as a target the source of the mark."

 

[Nail]

Ah, thanks for that! You're right... I thought Fighters got OAs only when the marked target shifted or moved. I didn't see that it also counts if the marked target makes an attack that does not include the source of the mark.

Errr...no. Read it again.

When a target is marked by the Fighter's Combat Challenge, the fighter does NOT get OAs (if the enemy shifts or attacks others). Full stop. The fighter gets a basic melee attack against that ememy as an Immediate Interupt.

That's NOT the same as an OA. So the Fighter doesn't get +WISMOD to the Immediate Interupt basic melee attack from Combat Challenge.

 

[Syrsuro]

To that end we ruled in our game that a 2-attack action (like most solos have) that includes the fighter for one of the attacks is good enough to satisfy the mark so the fighter doesn't get the OA, but I've yet to see any RAW or CS response that supports this interpretation.

This is, with a slight, clarification the way I believe the rule should work as well.

The clarification is this:

If the attack gives the creature the option of whether to attack two different targets or the same target twice (e.g. Ranger's Twin Strike, Dragon's Double Attack) the creature must choose to attack the fighter with both attacks or suffer an attack from the fighter.

If the attack does not give the creature the option of attacking the same target with both attacks (e.g. FIghter's Passing Attack or Chimera's Triple Threat) then it does not provoke an attack from the fighter.

The purpose of the mark is to cause the creature to focus on the fighter and thus attacks which can be directed at the fighter should be directed at the fighter (or the creature suffer's the consequences).

Aside: The fighter's attack is not an OA.

Carl

 

[Doctor Proctor]

As a Fighter myself, let me explain what would happen.

If the Solo creature that you had surrounded was marked, then the Fighter can do several things to him. If he attempts to shift, the Fighter gets an immediate interrupt attack in the form of a basic melee attack. This attack will not stop the movement of the monster, and it does not add the Wis mod to it's roll. If the Solo were instead to try and attack a PC other than the Fighter, then the Fighter will also get an immediate interrupt attack in the form of a basic melee attack.

The key thing to remember here though is that a PC only gets one immediate interrupt attack per round. So, if we go with Rafe's suggestion and have the monster spend an action point to really pound someone, then he will only suffer one melee basic attack from the Fighter and a -2 to hit. For a Solo creature, this shouldn't be that hard to soak up. If the person on the receiving end is a Wizard or Rouge though? They might not survive that double whallop, and even if they do, there's a good chance that it might bloody them.

Plus, Solo and Elite monsters should have a lot of other abilities besides just hitting someone, right? What if the monster has a push attack? He can push any one of those PC's out of the way and then be able to move unimpeded...provided he takes the OA's of course.

 

[Nail]

Plus, Solo and Elite monsters should have a lot of other abilities besides just hitting someone, right? What if the monster has a push attack? He can push any one of those PC's out of the way and then be able to move unimpeded...provided he takes the OA's of course.

In fact, the solo should push the Fighter first, then pound on the squishy...now out of reach of the Fighter's Immediate Interupt attack.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

In fact, the solo should push the Fighter first, then pound on the squishy...now out of reach of the Fighter's Immediate Interupt attack.

That's true, and probably a better tactic. If the monster did have threatening reach, that would even mean that the Fighter will now provoke an OA to get back into melee range.

 

[Plane Sailing]

bullrush

Curiously, bullrush can now only move the target 1 square, no matter how well you roll. A side effect is that it is impossible for anything to bullrush a dwarf.

Cheers

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Curiously, bullrush can now only move the target 1 square, no matter how well you roll. A side effect is that it is impossible for anything to bullrush a dwarf.

Cheers

Well, if you had a Shield Fighter using a Spear or Trident, he could use Tide of Iron and have the Spear Push feat to get an extra square of push. The same would be true of a Bullrush attempt. But yeah, for the most part it would have to be some sort of power like Thunderwave that pushes the target multiple squares.