Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Blog post: Speeding up Combat #3 - Barking up the Wrong Tree
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5451946" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Great article! Seems like this is the topic of the hour...or in the case of many 4e gamers a topic of debate for the last 2 years.</p><p></p><p>Basically there are three modes of thought about why 4e combats can lag...</p><p>1. Bad encounter design by the DM </p><p>2. Player indecisiveness / new to game</p><p>3. Problem with the rules as written</p><p></p><p>There has been a lot written about what DMs and players can do to speed up fights, but it seems like we've finally got the ear of the designers. </p><p></p><p>What is striking to me is that we've got the most playtested part of 4e (combat) undergoing revision of some basic assumptions, such as the number/XP value of challenges faced before a short rest - the "Reexamining the Dungeon" point made by Robert J Schwalb.</p><p></p><p>One of the posters at your blog said it nicely: quicker easier battles aren't about serious threats to the PCs (or their resources), instead they are about threats to their quest. In other words the stakes are different in the "skirmish" encounter, making them similar to skill challenges in that even in failure the game goes on.</p><p></p><p> So defeating the enemies isn't really in question - the PCs clearly have that capacity... Why bother with running a fight at all then? I would propose that every "skirmish" encounter would have as it's primary goal something besides killing the bad guys.</p><p></p><p> For example, disabling guards before scouts arrive with news, without sounding the alarm. A creative player might cast a spell on the alarm bell tower, nixing one means of alerting the enemy castle. Another might engage guards in melée...but their tactics will be to take out as many guards as they can as quickly as they can. Obviously the guards should be minions or lower level than the PCs. If the PCs succeed they can enter the castle unnoticed, but if they fail they must contend with increased security.</p><p></p><p> At least that's how I envision a "skirmish" encounter happening.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 5451946, member: 20323"] Great article! Seems like this is the topic of the hour...or in the case of many 4e gamers a topic of debate for the last 2 years. Basically there are three modes of thought about why 4e combats can lag... 1. Bad encounter design by the DM 2. Player indecisiveness / new to game 3. Problem with the rules as written There has been a lot written about what DMs and players can do to speed up fights, but it seems like we've finally got the ear of the designers. What is striking to me is that we've got the most playtested part of 4e (combat) undergoing revision of some basic assumptions, such as the number/XP value of challenges faced before a short rest - the "Reexamining the Dungeon" point made by Robert J Schwalb. One of the posters at your blog said it nicely: quicker easier battles aren't about serious threats to the PCs (or their resources), instead they are about threats to their quest. In other words the stakes are different in the "skirmish" encounter, making them similar to skill challenges in that even in failure the game goes on. So defeating the enemies isn't really in question - the PCs clearly have that capacity... Why bother with running a fight at all then? I would propose that every "skirmish" encounter would have as it's primary goal something besides killing the bad guys. For example, disabling guards before scouts arrive with news, without sounding the alarm. A creative player might cast a spell on the alarm bell tower, nixing one means of alerting the enemy castle. Another might engage guards in melée...but their tactics will be to take out as many guards as they can as quickly as they can. Obviously the guards should be minions or lower level than the PCs. If the PCs succeed they can enter the castle unnoticed, but if they fail they must contend with increased security. At least that's how I envision a "skirmish" encounter happening. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Blog post: Speeding up Combat #3 - Barking up the Wrong Tree
Top