Bloodied and why it is cool.

[the Jester]

Okay i wasnt going to comment but if you cant see the difference between starting with 10 hp or so and 1HD monsters with equal HP and generally 2-9 damage and starting with 40hp, monsters dying when you sneeze at them and only doing 5 damage even on a hit then we will simply never be able to connect on anything.

Dude, if you're going to go there, don't go there with your numbers this badly off.

The toughest possible 1st level pc in 4e could have 42 hit points if he was a warden with a Con of 20 (not his attack stat, btw) and the Toughness feat. So if he poured everything into hit points.

More likely, the party's defender/fighter type will have somewhere around 30 hps.

Typical first level monsters average 8 damage on a hit for an at will and 10-12 for a single-target encounter power.

So instead of "40 hp getting hit for 5," try "30 hps getting hit for 8+" and suddenly it isn't so silly.

 

[SensoryThought]

I've taken to having characters not be taking physical damage until they are bloodied to better rationalize quick hp recoveries during a short rest. It is all being winded, scrapes, and close calls. To heal the physical damage taken over the bloodied value requires magic healing (not bard/warlord words, although these can raise a pc above full temporary hp style).

Critical hits also do physical damage, which I record separately for monsters and note for pcs.

Yes, this is pure house ruling, but it works for my group.

 

[boredgremlin]

Dude, if you're going to go there, don't go there with your numbers this badly off.

The toughest possible 1st level pc in 4e could have 42 hit points if he was a warden with a Con of 20 (not his attack stat, btw) and the Toughness feat. So if he poured everything into hit points.

More likely, the party's defender/fighter type will have somewhere around 30 hps.

Typical first level monsters average 8 damage on a hit for an at will and 10-12 for a single-target encounter power.

So instead of "40 hp getting hit for 5," try "30 hps getting hit for 8+" and suddenly it isn't so silly.

I'm pretty sure it explicity states that minions do 5pts even on a hit. They might have changed it in later books but I'm pretty sure thats what the core 3 initially said.

Although your still going from getting killed with 1 solid hit to getting killed by 4 solid hits. That is significant.

 

[Kynn]

Although your still going from getting killed with 1 solid hit to getting killed by 4 solid hits. That is significant.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[boredgremlin]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

No a monster hitting you is a monster hitting you. Their both apples. At best minion (which is a stupid idea IMO) and non minion is granny smith to fuji apple.

 

[Kynn]

No a monster hitting you is a monster hitting you. Their both apples. At best minion (which is a stupid idea IMO) and non minion is granny smith to fuji apple.

Minions are a great idea. Sorry you don't like the idea. Did you have a point about "bloodied" or are you trying to derail this into more edition-warring anti-4e tirades?

 

[boredgremlin]

Minions are a great idea. Sorry you don't like the idea. Did you have a point about "bloodied" or are you trying to derail this into more edition-warring anti-4e tirades?

No one needs to go on an anti-4e tirade. WoTC already took 4e out back and shot it. Its just a matter of whether to bury it next to old yeller with honor or toss it to the pigs now.

But yes. Bloodied is a unnecessary complication. Its not mechanically significant in most cases and do to the balancing out factors it does not meaningfully impart the feeling of "you have been getting your butt kicked, now your bloodied".

If they had called it enraged or something maybe. But like much of 4e they used inappropriate terminology that doesnt convey the meaning of what they were actually doing.

 

[Gargoyle]

I like bloodied because it does several good things without a lot of bookkeeping:

- It lets players know how tough a foe is without spelling out their hit points.
- It gives healers a quick heads up when a PC is in trouble.
- Monsters and characters that have special abilities triggered by the bloodied state are interesting.

 

[Kynn]

No one needs to go on an anti-4e tirade. WoTC already took 4e out back and shot it. Its just a matter of whether to bury it next to old yeller with honor or toss it to the pigs now.

What a bizarre little fantasy world you live in.

But yes. Bloodied is a unnecessary complication. Its not mechanically significant in most cases and do to the balancing out factors it does not meaningfully impart the feeling of "you have been getting your butt kicked, now your bloodied".

I get the sneaking suspicion that you don't really understand what "bloodied" is supposed to represent.

If they had called it enraged or something maybe. But like much of 4e they used inappropriate terminology that doesnt convey the meaning of what they were actually doing.

Why would they call it "enraged" if it doesn't mean you're enraged?

 

[Ratskinner]

Bloodied sounded like a good mechanic to me, and I liked it from an abstract point of view. In practice, though, my players kept forgetting when they were and weren't bloodied. I certainly don't think that will be helped by adding two additional condition categories.

I'm expecting several modules on ways to handle HP and damage, though. So I wouldn't be surprised if something like this wasn't one of them.