BM Ranger Multiclass/Hybrid questions

[chorolus]

First off, I'm unfamiliar with how Hybrid classes work, so could somebody please explain how such a character would differ from the Multi-class concept detailed below?

Now I have to admit that I'm new to DnD but am a bit of a power gamer...so feel free to thwack me with my own dice if my suggestions reek of too much cheese, lol.

Anyways, my plan for this Ranger is to multi-class to a rogue to gain the sneak attack ability and then to wield a Wraithblade-enchanted Double Sword and to use his pet to generate as many Opportunity Attacks/Combat Advantage scenarios as possible, and to get Heavy Blade Opportunity to use Twin Strike for those Opportunity attacks.

For those who aren't familiar with a Wraithblade, it is a lvl 10+ enchantment available on Light Blades (the Double Sword is classified as both a heavy and light blade) that enables you to add your sneak attack damage to your critical attacks, even if you've already used a sneak attack that round. In the case of the multiclass character, unless I'm mistaken, he can only sneak attack once per combat...but the effects of the Wraithblade will kick in whether it's been used already or not.

Now, would a Hybrid-class Ranger/Rogue be more effective with this tactic, and possibly bring other new elements to the table? And other then the Beast Protector feat, are there any other Beastmaster feats that could provide additional Opportunity Attacks?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The double sword is no heavy blade anymore. There was a readon why heavy and light blade are distinct categories. Twin striking as an opportunity attack with sneak attack damage added in is such a thing.

 

[Mort_Q]

You may want to check the errata. The double-sword has been fixed (like a dog).

That said, a hybrid ranger rogue can only sneak attack with rogue powers, and to get both a Beast and Sneak Attack you`d have to forgo a paragon path to get the Hybrid Talent feat twice.

What level are you starting at?

 

[chorolus]

Bummer...I suppose it's only natural that such a combo would be removed. So there are no weapons that combine Light/Heavy weapons any longer? IMHO such a combination would be realistically feasible (simply an oversized dagger or undersized sword, really...)...but I can see from a game perspective why something like that would be hard to balance.

--edit--
Wow, once again another reply as I was typing, lol. Thanks for the speedy replies! I'm liking this forum already =]

So hybridizing may not be the best option. To clarify, my plan to use a Wraithblade weapon was not to USE sneak attack per se, but to simply Twin Strike and via the enchantment I get to add on sneak attack damage whenever I crit.

As for what lvl I'm starting at, I've yet to find a local group to join. So I'm just crunching numbers and building theoretical characters at the moment... So any level might be possible...

 

[Mort_Q]

You can still do some pretty cool things with a BM Ranger, Beast Protector, Cruel Cut Style, and HBO. Hunter's Quarry isn't that bad either.

 

[chorolus]

I read through the Errata, and apparently you can have different types of blades on each end of a Double-weapon. Pasted from the Eratta pdf:

Wielding a double weapon is like wielding a weapon
in each hand. In the table, the first line of the double
weapon’s entry describes the end of the weapon wielded
in your main hand. The indented line describes the weapon’s
other end, wielded in your off-hand. The two ends of
a double weapon can have different proficiency bonuses,
damage, properties, and weapon groups. The weight and
price entries represent the total for the weapon, rather
than only one side.

When adding an enchantment that requires a particular
weapon type, at least one end of the weapon must
match the requirement. For example, an urgrosh could
gain the vorpal enchantment, even though only one end
meets the requirement of “heavy blade or axe.”

An enchanted double weapon gains all benefits of
the enchantment on each end (even if one end would
not normally qualify for the enchantment). This does not
increase the frequency of use of any power possessed by
the item; if you wield a double weapon with a daily power
you can still only activate that power once per day.

So...theoretically I could have a Double-weapon with a Dagger or other light blade on one end, making the Wraithblade enchantment available, and having a Heavy Blade on the other end, making available Heavy Blade Opportunity? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to push the envelope a little and explore the rules.

One thing it doesn't clarify, but after tinkering with the Character Builder I think is assumed, is that you can only have one enchantment on a Double-Weapon, right? You can't enchant each end differently? I suppose that's the biggest difference between using a Double-Weapon vs using two 1-handed weapons...

 

[Mort_Q]

So...theoretically I could have a Double-weapon with a Dagger or other light blade on one end, making the Wraithblade enchantment available, and having a Heavy Blade on the other end, making available Heavy Blade Opportunity?

As a house-ruled weapon, sure.

I'm unclear what the advantage of the double-weapon is in this scenario. Why not just a Light Blade in one hand and a Heavy Blade in the other, and save the feat?

 

[chorolus]

Well, I'm trying to see what I can do and not be stuck as a 'House-ruled-only' character. If I made such a nasty combination weapon (my characters background is that he's a Warsmith, and makes his own stuff), following the rules in the Errata, wouldn't it be considered a legal weapon?

So far as my goal with the Double-Weapon versus just using two weapons, I hate the idea of having different dice sizes for each hand, and it brings a lot of micro-managing to the table with different enchantments on each weapon whilst using Twin Strike... That and a double-weapon is inherently defensive, which helps my Rangers pathetic AC... =p

--edit--
Oh, and almost forgot... The main reason I'm opting for a Double-Weapon over simply dual-wielding is that initially I wanted to have a ranger with 2 Heavy Blades in each hand, but I opted for the Beastmaster path, which makes it impossible to get the Two Blade Warrior feat... So to better fit with my initial vision of the character, I was leaning toward Double weapons because they simplify combat a bit, and just plain look cool

 

[Mort_Q]

If it's not in a book or the compendium, it's house-ruled. Your DM, when you find one, can allow you to design your own double weapon.

Don't forget to look at feat cost. A feat for +1 AC (granted, it stacks with everything) may not be the best choice.

 

[chorolus]

As for spending a feat for +1 AC, the feat isn't just for the +1 AC bonus from a defensive Double-Weapon, but for the other benefits a Double-Weapon would provide as well. He's gonna be Human anyways, so will have an 'extra' feat to spare.

After a second review I guess the definitions for varying weapon types on each end were most likely to better classify the Urgrosh with it's axe/spear ends. The wording is confusing in that they state each end of the weapon can have different proficiency requirements and different +hit bonuses/etc... As if they intended for players to be able to mix and match their own Double-Weapons. As you said though, it would pretty much be up to my GM I guess...so instead of getting too excited about making a fun, unique, and in all reality probably overpowered, weapon for my ranger I should probably focus on actually finding a gaming group and then see what they think about it, lol. Thanks for the suggestions and references, they were quite helpful ^^

So there aren't any weapons available that have the Heavy and Light blade classifications any longer?