Bo9S: Power Level?

[akbearfoot]

lol....are those DBZ jokes?


I'm playing a warblade in a game now at level 3....He uses a bastard sword and shield, knows iron heart and white raven maneuvers along with moment of perfect mind(this counter is so unbelievably good). He does the most damage with his tactical strike and steel wind maneuvers combined with punishing stance. But his AC is like 5 ptslower than the warforged fighter/psion and like 8 pts lower than the shifter druid.

In terms of power, he's not out pacing the other players at all yet...but then again white raven maneuvers are designed to power up all of your allies, and thats pretty much the goal.

He's taking a bloodline level at lvl 4 so he can take pearl of black doubt stance at 5th level. He'll also gain improved initiative and a d8 hit dice from the bloodline level(DMs ruling) which will let him go first quite often with his 17 dex.

 

[brehobit]

At lower levels (<6 for sure) they are very very powerful. More so than any other class IMO.

At mid-levels (6-10) they continue to outpace the warrior types, and the casters are about tied IME.

At higher-levels I'll defer to others, but most agree casters beat them up....

 

[Deekin]

IME, from about levels 1-7 they are about as powerful as a well build psion or sorcerer. The Duskblade still left the entire party in the dust, however.

 

[moritheil]

Crusader ~ paladin (better at melee, worse at resisting spells)
Warblade > barbarian (at high levels, due to the ability to shake off effects for more consistent damage)
Swordsage > monk (more damage output, better at shrugging off everything)

I'd say all three beat fighter hands down, but it's pretty hard to find a class that doesn't.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO, all three Martial Adepts are able to be useful even in a party otherwise made up of Wizards, Druids and Clerics. They're not able to break reality like a true spellcaster, but they can pull their own weight.

They are also damn fun.

The only PHB melee class of comparable strength is the Barbarian, who is (in my opinion) less fun.

I'd say all three beat fighter hands down, but it's pretty hard to find a class that doesn't.

How about the C.War Samurai, C.War Swashbuckler (as a 20-level class, not as a 3-level dip), and Spellthief?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Arkhandus]

In my experience, they're roughly on-par with the spellcasting core classes overall, being superior at low levels (as most warrior-types are at low levels) and slightly inferior at upper levels (and less versatile).

They're similar or slightly behind spellcasters in damage output and defensive abilities at upper levels, but more consistent. They are, of course, lacking in utility but nowhere near as badly as core warrior-types. They suffer in ranged combat, but no moreso than a core warrior-type (they might have to spend a feat on longbow proficiency, but they can at least use throwing axes and stuff by default).

All in all, they're somewhat stronger than core classes at low levels, but it's mostly unnoticeable unless the group fights a lot of battles each day, or fights really sneakily (they can nova a bit, just not nearly so well as a psion or wilder). Fairly balanced the rest of the time (and a druid can still outclass them in every way with the right build, just not as badly as a druid would outclass a fighter).

 

[pawsplay]

Compared to the power against core classes, psionics stuff and some other supplemental material (ToM, WoL, PHB2 and LM) whaere does the Tome of Battle stand?

Warblades are similar to Clerics, Swordsages are about on par with psychic warriors, and crusaders are in the middle. Nothing as weak as the Soulknife, basically. Warblades slightly edge out fighters; fighters are still better than the others in a straight up fight.

 

[Slife]

How about the C.War Samurai, C.War Swashbuckler (as a 20-level class, not as a 3-level dip), and Spellthief?

Cheers, -- N

Hey now. A web enhancement gives the swashbuckler a very powerful ability. For blackmail


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

 

[moritheil]

How about the C.War Samurai, C.War Swashbuckler (as a 20-level class, not as a 3-level dip), and Spellthief?

Cheers, -- N

Hmm. Spellthief 20 is much better than fighter 20 IMO, but I tend to wind up in very high magic campaigns. I haven't played a straight swashbuckler to high levels, so I'm not able to compare it with a straight fighter.

As for the C War Samurai, that was widely panned as trash, and I will readily agree it is worse than the Fighter.

 

[Zelc]

Wise words:

Martial adepts continue to play the same game that everyone else has been playing, with various new refinements and twists, up through twenty. This game can be called D&D. High-level spellcasters get to play the all-new games of Rocket Launcher Tag and "Let's Bone Reality Up The Backside", and nobody else gets to play.

Now, some aspects of Bo9S can be very powerful. Thicket of Blades combined with a reach weapon and Stand Still makes a solid super glue tank, and Stormguard Warrior can create some eyepopping damage figures. But I think this all pales in comparison to the power of stuff like Shapechange...