Book of Exalted Deeds: Axiomatic Creature- Level Adjustment?

[UltimaGabe]

I was just wondering... if a creature is given the Axiomatic template through the Axiomatic Creature spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds (assuming they manage to convince an Archon with 15 levels of Cleric willing to give up experience to cast a spell for them), do they take on a Level Adjustment? i don't have the stats on me, but if I'm not mistaken, you gain a Smite Chaos attack, a Hive Mind, I think some resistances, and possibly Spell Resistance (again, I can't remember). It seems powerful, but I didn't see anything in the spell description about a Level Adjustment. Does anyone know how this would affect PCs with the spell cast on them?

 

[DanMcS]

I was just wondering... if a creature is given the Axiomatic template through the Axiomatic Creature spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds (assuming they manage to convince an Archon with 15 levels of Cleric willing to give up experience to cast a spell for them), do they take on a Level Adjustment? i don't have the stats on me, but if I'm not mistaken, you gain a Smite Chaos attack, a Hive Mind, I think some resistances, and possibly Spell Resistance (again, I can't remember). It seems powerful, but I didn't see anything in the spell description about a Level Adjustment. Does anyone know how this would affect PCs with the spell cast on them?

Normally, challenge ratings for an encounter include any spellcasting abilities of casters you encounter. If that same celestial were to use a summon monster spell, the party doesn't get extra experience for defeating it.

If he uses his spellcasting to buff up a foe, it shouldn't change the challenge rating of the encounter, normally, or the CR/effective level of any PCs.

However, if they are, say, patrolling through a dungeon and encounter a monster that has had this spell placed on it, making it axiomatic, without encountering the caster that laid the spell on it, it would be fair to apply the CR adjustment from the axiomatic template to the monster.

 

[andargor]

However, if they are, say, patrolling through a dungeon and encounter a monster that has had this spell placed on it, making it axiomatic, without encountering the caster that laid the spell on it, it would be fair to apply the CR adjustment from the axiomatic template to the monster.

I believe he's talking about a PC that receives the spell from a benefactor, an Archon in this case.

IMHO, the spell doesn't require an LA, but for game balance the DM should seriously consider it because of the resistances and whatnot. I don't have my MotP with me, but I believe we are talking LA +2 to +4.

Andargor

 

[DanMcS]

I answered that part, too, just deriving it from the general case that spellcasting buffs don't change CR. It's not permanent, is it?

 

[UltimaGabe]

It is in fact permanent. (Which means it can be dispelled, theoretically.) However, I suggest you look in the BoED itself to make any official ruling, as it lists the benefit there (rather than referring to the MotP, which may have different stats). The problem, though, is that nowhere in the spell description does it list any LA. And it seems kinda wrong to apply a level adjustment to something that could, theoretically, be dispelled.

After all, if you had an NPC cast Permanency along with several beneficial spells on a PC, would it grant them a Level Adjustment? As this spell gives a permanent bonus and requires XP spent from the caster, I think it's in the same league as Permanency. The only problem, though, is that there's really no way for a PC to cast it on himself- it would HAVE to come from an NPC.

 

[Scion]

polymorph any object can be permanent pretty easily.. it doesnt list any CR or LA.

But then these types of things are a bit above and beyond in a lot of ways.. it certainly seems like it simply wasnt thought of, or too complicated to worry about.

 

[andargor]

I just realized something: a wizard with Shapechange can turn into an Archon. Having the Archon subtype, he can cast this spell...

It is powerful, but since it has a permanent duration, it can be dispelled, no?

Andargor

 

[DM_Matt]

There are also several prestige classes that let you emulate the celestial requirement, such as the Exalted Sorc prc and and the rediculously-overpowered-if-you-start-as-a-cleric Harper Paragon prc.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I just realized something: a wizard with Shapechange can turn into an Archon. Having the Archon subtype, he can cast this spell...

Except that it's an 8th level Cleric spell. Not even Wish could let you cast that.

 

[Goobermunch]

Except that it's an 8th level Cleric spell. Not even Wish could let you cast that.

No, but a Wiz 3/ Cleric 7/MyT 10 with a scroll of shapechange could!

--G