Book of Exalted Deeds - Exalted feat question

[Trainz]

Yeah well that's all fine and dandy but me an Yig have settled the conundrum (3 syllables !!!) for my campaign at this point, so thanks guys !

I went as far as proposing to him to switch sacred strike for another feat if he doesn't want to play an exalted character.

I'm such a player spoiler !

 

[Yig]

I'm such a player spoiler !

More like trickster

 

[Saeviomagy]

I changed the alignment from neutral to evil because killing a defenseless foe (prisoner) seems very evil to me. It is nothing more than exerting one's power over the life of another.

I think you were being a jerk. I seriously doubt you would have bumped his alignment immediately to good for risking his life for another member of the party. Bumping his alignment straight to evil for the execution of a foe seems to me to be in the same league.


As for the exalted character? He's still good, but he's no longer exalted.

Exalted is the goodest of the good. Paladins, those paragons of good ARE NOT EXALTED. They're not good enough.

So as soon as you think to yourself "Hey - that's a morally questionable action", bang. No more exalted. It really is that precarious.

 

[Shadeus]

I hope you learned your lesson. Next time use a sap and do subdual damage and keep your exalted feat. Then question them to your hearts content or turn them over to the authorities for murdering villagers.

 

[Scharlata]

I think you were being a jerk. I seriously doubt you would have bumped his alignment immediately to good for risking his life for another member of the party. Bumping his alignment straight to evil for the execution of a foe seems to me to be in the same league. [...]

Hi, Saeviomagy!

Please don't base your arguments on verbal injuries, because that's as rude as you normally sound.

If in doubt what I've done all those years DMing, simply ask me before conjecturing.

And: I've done the thing you "seriously doubt". I've shifted the alignment from neutral to good for a PC who single-handedly rescued a child - in the midest of a fight - from the grasp of a demon, risking his own life for that of the child's.

To remind you: That was an unauthorized execution of a defenseless and helpless prisoner. I don't know what you think is good, if you are so lax about alignment.

Not so kind regards

 

[CyberSpyder]

Hi!

The BoED has a chapter about mercy, being a good act. Mercilessness is not a good act - it's evil. If you show no mercy, you are evil. By the book.

Kind regards

Well, not exactly. If mercy is good, then logic would only dictate that not-mercy is not-good - i.e., mercilesness is neutral or worse. Naturally, you can define it to be evil if you wish, and it would make a fair amount of sense to do so, but the book part only indicates that if you show no mercy, you aren't good.

 

[Nail]

I went as far as proposing to him to switch sacred strike for another feat if he doesn't want to play an exalted character.

Good call!

Being Exalted can be seriously cool...but you have to work a bit harder at it than normal, and you have to like having to solve quasi-moral quandries. Now-a-days, most of us don't want to do that; in present-day America, might makes right and who are you to tell me otherwise?



Being Exalted is not the same as being a Lawful Good Paladin. It's better. As a previous poster said, if you think it's morally questionable...then the Exalted PC should have no part in it.

As to the "threatened villagers" scenario: Are you claiming that ambushing the gnolls in their sleep is the only solution? Wow. Remind me not to accidently cut you off as I park my car........

 

[Apuglisi]

I think the problem is that now everything is muddled...

I liked more when things were evil and point. Now you could try to change a goblin...For crying out loud...please...
And all that because someone wanted to write about a drow that stopped being evil...please...

They tried to put the gray shades we have in real life into the game...In fantasy things are more easy (at least to my eyes) and there are different types of good characters...

I played the good that just hacked everything evil, no redemption possible to a healer that believed that you could take an orc child and raised it to be a good person if you gave it love and a good enviroment...

I think that what is evil and what is not shouldnt be told by rules but should be something where all playrs and DM agree.
And I cant buy that you can change the ways of the orcs, goblins, etc...Everything sounds like merchandise campaing to me...

Depending on the character, in my eyes, killing sleeping gnolls would be a good action...Please...I so hate good characters behaving like idiots..Grrrrr!!

That I am good and will not use this advantage is so cheasy and so todya way of thinking ... :\

 

[Mokona]

Moral equivocation is always a problem in D&D. I see a couple mutually exclusive choices.

1. Remove alignment from the game. Players can no longer kill NPCs in their sleep because you can't tell who is evil and who isn't without observing an evil act.

2. Keep aligments and accept that players can and should execute evil NPCs for their crimes past, present, or future. D&D is a violent game and unless a PC is specifically non-violent you can't call destroying evil to be an evil act.

Unless you plan to provide mass transportation (radio in a police car pickup of prisoners) and a robust prison system in your D&D game the only reasonable option for characters faced with criminals during game is frontier justice (i.e. execute prisoners for evil acts). The very nature of good or lawful (i.e. the judicial system) executing a murderer in the real world REQUIRES that the murderer be helpless during the act of execution. For that matter a helpless evil NPC suffers a lot less pain than one killed during combat. Isn't it more humane that way?

 

[Apuglisi]

Not just that...

Imagine that I am a farmer...now a good character comes and he salughters the evil orcs that were near where I lived...He used the advantage of getting them asleep, whatever...

Now an exalted character instead will try to get them in a fair fight or redeem them or whatever...Now a couple of orcs could maybe escaped..
Those orcs get reinforcements and, as a vengance they raid my home...I loose my family in that raid...

Well, that exalted character I better hope it is away because I would hubt it down (even if i died) because I would blame him for my lost...Wouldnt you be angry as well? Instead of removing the evil that exalted char tried to convert/parlor with them...and now your family is gone..

Doesnt sound well to me