Book of Nine Swords -- okay?

[brehobit]

I wonder if this will be similar the initial arguments about the Mystic Theurge when the 3.5 DMG was released....that on paper it looks horribly unbalanced, but in play, isn'? That was an example of a fix to a multiclassing issue I'd noticed before 3.0 was released, when they were revealing all the "preview" info about how it would work.

Banshee

I will get to see soon. Our group will have a swordsage shortly.

I still claim anyone who gets a +2 attack +4 damage bonus (at 5th level!) against anything bigger than them (it's a stance) has a pretty broken set of abilities. Throw in the exploding opponent and other maneuvers and it gets crazy fast.

I really do like these classes. A lot. I just think the fighters, barbs, rangers, monks and paladins of the world have been replaced. And to an extent the clerics and wizards have had their toes stepped on.

Mark

 

[Felon]

As an aside, I tend to agree that if people are arguing vociferously for and against then things are probably balanced.

I tend to agree with your statement above. This thread has seen strong arguments on both sides of the issue. That would seem to imply that it's balanced.

So, if one side is arguing that something's broken and another side is arguing that something's balanced, and you deem them both to have strong arguements, then the latter must be right? Please explain the rationale behind that implication.

I gotta ask you guys, if you're shopping for a home and you have it inspected by two separate professionals, and one tells you it's okay and the other says it's a deathtrap, is your default conclusion that the house is okay? Or how about reading wildly disparate movie reviews? Some negative review and some positive reviews tend to mean the movie's probably good?

 

[wayne62682]

The only thing I can see that may be an issue is that the Warblade can recover all his maneuvers as a Swift action.. so that means he can use the neat ones (I did not check which ones he gets, however, so it may not be the +100 damage one) every other round. That seems a little much to me, but still cool.

After reading more through Tome of Battle (although I will not buy it yet because I wouldn't be allowed to use it without getting branded a munchkin), it does seem like a very neat addition to the game.

 

[brehobit]

A warblade with d8 HD, 2 skillpoints/level and 3/4 BAB would still be very very playable. (I'd say about right actually). That, in a nutshell, is the problem.

Not as a front line figher really, that would be relgating him to the side lines as a skirmisher, not the warrior he is supposed to be.

But he'd still be very playable, even as a front-line fighter. At level 5 or 7 he'd be able to keep up with the figher. Better? Nope. At Level 15-20 he'd still be flat-out better I think. As a front-line fighter, in addition to in other roles (depending on abilities selected).

 

[Felon]

I believe the key phrase is "a melee attack." There are multiple actions that can yeild "a melee attack." A standard action - standard attack. A full round action: Charge & coup de grace. As long as you limit yourself to making "a melee attack." It would seem rather contradictory to allow you to make a full attack action when it specifically prohibits a double move ("use a standard action to do nothing else").

I don't see what you're getting at. As you say, a melee attack can be part of a full-round attack. There is no prohibition of a double-move if you make a melee attack. The reference to using a standard action and "do nothing else" is a reference to using a standard action to recover the maneuvers by twirling a weapon in the air; it's a way to recover maneuvers if it's not possible to actually make an attack.

 

[Thanatos]

Brehobit - I'd love to hear how it goes with the swordsage in your game.

I'd also love to hear more of your thoughts about the warlock class (in another thread though). It's one that's always interested me, but one I've never seen played.

But he'd still be very playable, even as a front-line fighter. At level 5 or 7 he'd be able to keep up with the figher. Better? Nope. At Level 15-20 he'd still be flat-out better I think. As a front-line fighter, in addition to in other roles (depending on abilities selected).

I don't agree he would be able to be up there as a front line fighter or that he would be flat out better at 15+. Second string? sure, like the monk or cleric can be second string, only somewhat more effective if he hits/i], which he wouldn't be doing as often. At that point, he'd almost become a replacement for the poor bard...and actually be along the lines of what an EQ bard was, running around in plate...

 

[Felon]

Not as a front line figher really, that would be relgating him to the side lines as a skirmisher, not the warrior he is supposed to be.

Well, I'd suggest "re-supposing" it as something reasonable and balanced. It's not a class that created specifically to embody some fantasy archetype like knight or scout, after all; this class is a shill for a set of mechanics. If giving the character heavy offense means softening it up somewhere else, then so be it.

 

[Gargoyle]

I personally think people are too concerned with balance issues. Sure, there are obviously stronger or weaker class and abilities, but isn't the game supposed to be about fun?

Unbalanced games are usually less fun for somebody in the group.

 

[Thanatos]

Well, I'd suggest "re-supposing" it as something reasonable and balanced. It's not a class that created specifically to embody some fantasy archetype like knight or scout, after all; this class is a shill for a set of mechanics. If giving the character heavy offense means softening it up somewhere else, then so be it.

Except I don't agree it is unreasonable and unbalanced as you suggest.

Your statement about the class being a "shill for a set of mechanics" is your opinion, not fact like you present it and I disagree with it. As well, I believe they embody the fantasy spirt the monk was made in as well, embodying holy, mystical and straight out warrior aspects of that class without the eastern flavor.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I guess it depends on the group. We're just in it for fun.