Book of the Righteous-- help me stick with it...

[Wulf Ratbane]

Ok, I picked up BotR (finally!) over the Christmas break during the dirt-cheap Paizo sale.

I've made it through the first couple of chapters, mythology and cosmology, and I'm starting in on the churches now.

First, I wasn't convinced by the mythology. I was with it for the Nameless One, the Chaos Infernus, and the original gods. But as the mythology progressed, we dropped through one, two, three or four generations of gods. It started to lose me.

Now I am onto Chapter 3 and the Churches, and it all seems very Organized Religion now. Sort of a Greek/Roman sized pantheon, but with all the trappings of a Western European, big C "Church."

So let's take a few things as given: First, I know it's a bit early in the book to get discouraged. Second, I'm not 100% down with the mythology (which seems needlessly complex by at least one "generation" of divine beings). Third, I was hoping for something less organized, and less Western European. Fourth, I was hoping for a "religious tech" that predates, for example, "cathedrals." Fifth and most importantly, I know this book is very well reviewed and I respect the opinion of my fellow EnWorlders.

So sort of given all that, is there anything anyone who is very familiar with this book can do to recommend I stick with it until the later chapters? What's coming up that I will find more to my taste? What's coming up that I will be able to easily reintegrate into a divine cosmology of my own creation?

I ask not only because I want some insight into how other folks have used the book, but also because I have a big pile of other Green Ronin Christmas books to get to, and I don't want to flip around through my pile endlessly, or I'll be unable to internalize any good ideas at all. If I set The Book of the Righteous down now, it's going to go on my shelf for a long, long time.

Can you convince me not to do that?

 

[RichGreen]

I ask not only because I want some insight into how other folks have used the book, but also because I have a big pile of other Green Ronin Christmas books to get to, and I don't want to flip around through my pile endlessly, or I'll be unable to internalize any good ideas at all. If I set The Book of the Righteous down now, it's going to go on my shelf for a long, long time.

Can you convince me not to do that?

Funnily enough, it's been on my shelf since I got it and read it all the way through a few years ago. Now I'm starting a homebrew campaign, I'm thinking about using the pantheon in it and started this thread about it a few days ago.

Hope this helps


Richard

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Thanks, Rich. I had seen that thread (perhaps subconsciously it drove me to post my own thread) but from the looks of it, most of those folks just used the book "as is."

I think my question is, if I don't use the pantheon "as is," is there really much point in continuing?

 

[Zaukrie]

I could never decide. I love the book, and found it to be a great read/study on building a coherent theology/mythology. But, I never used it. I think there are pieces to be used in my next campaign, but I'm not a fan of the centralized church aspect. It isn't what I want in my homebrew.

 

[Treebore]

I think its great material to use one of two ways. One is as is, the second is to use it as a template for whatever pantheon you want to use.


Why keep reading? Because each religion is well detailed. Holidays, attire, and even a bit of doctrine is talked about. So when your all done you have a cohesive pantheon with a creation myth, a history, alliances, enemies, practices, tons of adventure ideas, etc...

Now if that isn't something you want at this time put it on your shelf. When you want religion with depth for your campaign pull it back out.

 

[Treebore]

I could never decide. I love the book, and found it to be a great read/study on building a coherent theology/mythology. But, I never used it. I think there are pieces to be used in my next campaign, but I'm not a fan of the centralized church aspect. It isn't what I want in my homebrew.

Yeah, that is why I used it as a template. I don't have a "central religion" for my whole campaign world, it is completely regional, much like our real world religions are.

One day I hope to have a group who decides to try and find out what the "true creation myth" of my campaign world is. Then stick together long enough to do it.

 

[linnorm]

How 'bout the holy warrior class? I like it much more than the generic paladin. You can customize individuals in the same way you do clerics, domain selection. The flexibility to have holy warriors of two different gods not be virtual clones of each other touches my happy place. Also, you can have (un)holy warriors without needing to work toward the blackguard PrC. Although The Unholy Warrior's Handbook is probably a better match for this last point.

Oh, I concur with the above, it's a bitchin' template for homebrew work too.

 

[Garnfellow]

This book had an interesting history.

Back at the height of the d20 craze, when books were coming out so fast that no one person could keep up with it all, the EN World review section played a vital role in helping me get a handle on all of the releases. The section ranked by review ratings, and for many months (years?) the Book of the Righteous stood on the top of the heap, with just an unbelievable string of perfect scores.

In fact, I seem to remember there was even something of a minor scandal when some brave reviewer decided to give the book a middle of the road rating -- and his rationale was, reasonably enough, that while the book was an interesting read it was not useful for his game. I think part of the argument was that the pantheon was too hard to integrate into an established world or one that deviated too far from D&D conventions.

And this is actually a big and fundamental problem with D&D and religion: unlike feats or prestige classes, pantheons are not just modular plug and play elements that can be easily dropped into a game. They come with all sorts of implied cosmology, history, social organizations, cultures, game mechanics, and so forth. If a game product presents a new pantheon it has to also provide a certain amount of detail to make the pantheon worth the trouble; but the more details make the pantheon harder to implement. It seems really hard to find the sweet spot.

Anyway, back in the day I was running a D&D homebrew that was low-magic and I had really no use for a pantheon book, even though I was impressed by the reviews. Like Wulf, I only just picked up a copy over Christmas. I haven't read it cover to cover, but I do pick it up now and again and I've been very impressed by the amount of adventure hooks built in. Almost every prestige class makes me want to make a character, which is usually a very good sign.

But that said, it does look like it would be very hard to use BotR in an average homebrew game, unless you designed your whole world with that specific pantheon in mind. It's sort of a shame that no other publisher seems to have used this pantheon for their house world.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Oh, I concur with the above, it's a bitchin' template for homebrew work too.

How? That's what I want to know.

Does the book actually provide any specific guidance on this point, or is it more of a do-it-yourself, file off the serial numbers kind of exercise?

I am sure the Holy Warrior prestige class will get a look from me, but to be frank that's the sort of crunchwork I'm well capable of myself.

It's sort of a shame that no other publisher seems to have used this pantheon for their house world.

On first glance, I couldn't find the declarations of Open Content or Product Identity. :\

 

[Garnfellow]

How 'bout the holy warrior class? I like it much more than the generic paladin.

I agree completely. If I were gonna design D&D 3.75, I'd jettison the paladin and use the holy warrior instead. And GR has updated the class to 3.5.