Book Prices...

[Treebore]

But that's completely different from the issue of if the price is worth it. The books are cheaper, now, than they were 20 years ago, and have higher quality content. The fact they're a luxury item is pretty irrelevant to the discussion. Profit margins are razor thin and game companies constantly teeter on the edge of bankruptcy.

True, I think I even said as much in my first post, or three. I am just pointing out why you won't see lower income people buying RPG books, or at least not very many of the books. Good value or not, they are a luxury item. Still expensive, very expensive if you are in a low income bracket.

So even though my household is in the $60,000+ take home bracket, I still consider them very expensive too.

Heck, my aforementioned family members don't even own any game stations, let alone RPG books. They don't even own DVD players, and they only own CD's, and last I knew their only CD players are in their respective cars. They simply have more important things to spend their money on, like rent, food, car payments, etc...

So even though the books are well priced for what we are getting, they are still terribly expensive to about 10% of our working population.

 

[El Mahdi]

...I know when I got stuff in the 2e era things didn't seem overly expensive... They seemed right on the cusp... I guess that was because they hadn't really raised the prices to meet inflation though huh?

I felt the prices weren't expensive either.

However, even though at the time I was making less money than I am now, I could allocate a higher percentage of my money as "disposable income" than I can now. I wouldn't trade it for anything, but growing up, getting married, and having to be "more responsible" had made a big difference in how much money I spend on RPG's.

When I first started playing I was young and single, so dropping $200 or more a month on RPG hobby stuff was no big deal. Today, I probably average closer to $20 a month.

Inflation wise, I realy couldn't say whether they are more expensive or not. Personally, with responsibilities and less free income, I just can't spend as much.

 

[Glyfair]

OK, pulled out my Dragon Archive again. Based on this Cost-of-Living calculator, I get the following costs in today's dollars for products based on the prices advertised in early Dragon and Strategic Reviews:

1975

Issue #1 Strategic Review (6 pages) - $2.01
Dungeons and Dragons boxed set - $40.17
Chainmail - $20.08
Dice set (d20, d12, d8, d6, d4) - $7.03
Greyhawk (Expansion #1) - $24.10
Boot Hill - $20.08 (after coupon in Strategic Review $18.08)
Set of Percentile Dice (2 d20) - $8.03
Dungeon! board game - $50.21
Empire of the Petal Throne - $100.42 ($80.33 after coupon)
En Garde! (GDW RPG) - $16.07
3 36" x 21" hex sheets - $8.03
Pad of 100 8 1/2" x 11" hex shets - $8.03

1976

Blackmoor - $18.99 (same price as Greyhawk, but the change in cost of living causes the seeming drop - Greyhawk is the same in 1976)
Character Archaic - $11.39
Eldritch Wizardry - $18.99
6 Issue subscription at launch of The Dragon - $34.18
Single Issue The Dragon - $5.70
White Bear Red Moon (wargame that started Glorantha and led to Runequest) - $30.38
Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes - $18.99
Lhankmar Board Game - $37.98
Swords & Spells - $18.99
Metamorphosis Alpha - $18.99

1977

City State of the Invincible Overlord (Judges Guild) $32.09
Set of 5 official D&D miniatures from MiniFigs (dwarves, elves, etc.) - $7.45-$8.88
OGRE (Metagaming minigame) - $10.52
12 Issue Subscription to Space Gamer Magazine - $32.09
Arduin Grimoire - $35.66
1 Set Dungeon Geomorphs (TSR) - $8.88
Tegel Manor (Judges Guild) - $16.05
Nomad Gods (2nd Glorantha Board Game, leading to Runequest) - $35.48
Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (Holmes Edition) - $35.48
Cosmic Encounter - $35.66
First Campaign World (Judges Guild, Dave Arneson's Blackmoor) - $28.46
Judges Shield (Judges Guild) - $7.06
AD&D Monster Manual - $35.48

 

[Glyfair]

I'll go through the years later (and maybe spin it into its own thread if there is enough interest). I do have some comments.

Note that the Monster Manual is ballpark what the Monster Manual is released at today.

Since D&D really required Chainmail to play, it cost about $65 in today's dollars to have all the basic rules for D&D (Chainmail & the D&D set) in 1975. Sure, getting the basic rules for D&D today costs more, but you get a lot more for your money in production quality and sheer information.

Empire of the Petal Throne was over $100 when it came out ($25).

Given the amazing quality maps of the City State of the Invincible Overlord, and Tegel Manor (still the best haunted house maps EVER), they were an incredible deal.

 

[Storm Raven]

Note that the Monster Manual is ballpark what the Monster Manual is released at today.

And the Monster Manual now is a much better product than it was back then:

1e D&D Monster Manual: 110 pages, black and white art.
3.5e Monster Manual: 319 pages, full color art, glossy paper, better quality cover and binding.

So, for relatively the same amount of money, you now get three times as much book, better paper, full-color art, and a more durable book. Game books are a much better deal now than they were in the 1980s.

Now, for those talking about how many people make minimum wage, and that $20 is a lot of money to them still, that's certainly true. But then again, in 1979, minimum wage was a fair amount less than it is now, so for a minimum wage earner then, it probably required four or five hours of work to earn enough money for a $12-15 book.

Further, it seems to me to be not that surprising that someone who is making minimum wage would not find buying a luxury product to be particularly feasable as an option. On the other hand, in terms of entertainment per dollar, an RPG book is probably a lot less expensive than most other luxury items.

 

[Glyfair]

So, for relatively the same amount of money, you now get three times as much book, better paper, full-color art, and a more durable book. Game books are a much better deal now than they were in the 1980s.

I'll agree on all but durable. The AD&D handbooks were the most durable RPG books I have ever owned. I still have my original books (and were all bought with a month or two of release), they were not used carefully, and all are still intact with only the PHB really showing significant damage.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Profit margins are razor thin and game companies constantly teeter on the edge of bankruptcy.

And in this economy, it's not even just the game companies. Publishers of all sorts are in a really bad spot right now...

 

[Korgoth]

They were much more expensive. You paid more, in raw dollars, for fewer pages and poorer art.

I beg to differ! I really like a lot of those evocative black and white pictures. Some of the stuff in the 1e PHB is fantastic.

And those pages were dense with material! I'm still getting use out of my 1e DMG to this day (and I'm not playing 1e).

Whereas I don't like the texture of glossy pages, I don't like WAR's art at all (or any dungeonpunk or associated stuff) and find the text about as interesting as washing machine instructions.

Some (not all) of those old books were full of such brilliance and vitality that, value-wise, they were a steal. And a lot of books today seem like a total waste of trees.

 

[Treebore]

A

Now, for those talking about how many people make minimum wage, and that $20 is a lot of money to them still, that's certainly true. But then again, in 1979, minimum wage was a fair amount less than it is now, so for a minimum wage earner then, it probably required four or five hours of work to earn enough money for a $12-15 book.

Further, it seems to me to be not that surprising that someone who is making minimum wage would not find buying a luxury product to be particularly feasable as an option. On the other hand, in terms of entertainment per dollar, an RPG book is probably a lot less expensive than most other luxury items.

I don't know, according to a 2005 CBO report I came across while looking this inflation stuff up the 1979 minimum wage was worth $7.29 2005 dollars. I would think that means minimum wage hasn't increased that much over the years, but I am too tired right now to be thinking about math.

 

[S'mon]

Lemme see - I really got into AD&D in 1984-5, and the TSR hardbacks were £10.99, which seems a lot more expensive than today when they're maybe £14.99.

Edit: OTOH up until the very end of the 1e era*, TSR products were much more densely packed with good stuff than their modern equivalents. 32 page modules like Keep on the Borderlands or Isle of Dread would be 128+ these days.

*There are a few densely packed 2e era products, eg Greyhawk Ruins.

My 1e Monster Manual lacks encounter tables, but otherwise seems more comprehensive than my 3e one, and vastly moreso than my 4e one, which is more of a sampler. It's also incredibly durable; 30 years old and looks nearly new.